It was all too complicated for me so decided to use bottled, picking some 2 L bottles of Ashbeck in Tesco the label said Calcium 11mg, magnesium 3.5mg residue 85mg, looking at the 5 L bottle that said 17, 5 and 140. Curiously both were bottled at source in Armathwaite, so how does that work? Checking my Waitrose 2 L Lockhills the label exactly matches the Tesco 5L bottle. Does water change it’s composition according to the size of bottle and can water from two different sources have exactly the same composition.

    SurreyAlan Drawn from different places/springs from the same aquifer? Maybe tested at different times?

    No the water won’t change composition based on bottle size.

      Doram TDS doesn’t indicate scaling potential, because it’s the calcium, magnesium (total hardness) and the alkalinity (temporary hardness - the ability for the total hardness to deposit) that are factors here.

      TDS is everything in the water, a lot of which won’t affect scaling.

      The parties mentioned are just using common parlance and units in their analysis, nothing unusual in what they are saying.

          MWJB Doram TDS doesn’t indicate scaling potential, because it’s the calcium, magnesium (total hardness) and the alkalinity (temporary hardness - the ability for the total hardness to deposit) that are factors here.

          TDS is everything in the water, a lot of which won’t affect scaling.

          The parties mentioned are just using common parlance and units in their analysis, nothing unusual in what they are saying.

          Thanks. This is beyond my understanding. Can you maybe explain in simple terms the difference in scaling potential between the new and older versions of Ashbeck?

              Doram Old Ashbeck, low scaling potential but also low alkalinity & pH so erring more to corrosive (outside typical recommendations).
              Latest Ashbeck still low scaling potential (but still able to scale in a steam boiler eventually) less tendency to be corrosive, due to slightly higher alkalinity & pH (lowest end of typical recommendation).

              It’s always a trade off of scaling vs corrosiveness.

                  MWJB Doram Old Ashbeck, low scaling potential but also low alkalinity & pH so erring more to corrosive (outside typical recommendations).
                  Latest Ashbeck still low scaling potential (but still able to scale in a steam boiler eventually) less tendency to be corrosive, due to slightly higher alkalinity & pH (lowest end of typical recommendation).

                  It’s always a trade off of scaling vs corrosiveness.

                  Thanks again. My boiler is stainless steel, so I believe corrosion isn’t an issue for me? Taste wise I don’t think I can tell the difference (from my own experimentation), so not too bothered about that either.

                  I’m left with scaling potential. Can you maybe put some numbers on the difference between old and new Ahsbeck? I know it’s not as simple and straight forward as two numbers or a percent point, but still - 85 vs 140 TDS is something that my mind is able to understand. Is there any other way to quantify the difference in scaling potential so I know what I’m facing if I continue to use Ashbeck compared to what I had before?

                      Doram As has been said, you’re looking at the mg/l figures for calcium and magnesium, together with the mg/l figures for alkalinity (sometimes derived from bicarbonate expressed as CaCO3 and sometimes helpfully expressed as simply alkalinity or bicarbonate alkalinity). These figures together with the temperature determine scaling potential. The spreadsheet in my signature allows you to specify either hardness an alkalinity if known, or calcium, magnesium, and bicarbonate concentration in mg/l along with the temp of your boilers to see if the water will form scale or not.

                      Re corrosion: it’s not a simple matter. In terms of water purity there’s not too much to worry about, especially with good alkalinity. There are other issues like chloride and sulfate presence (depending on boiler material, with an increasing corrosion risk if scale will also form).

                          Rob1

                          Thanks! I will try to use the calculator and hopefully get a grasp of this.

                            Doram

                            Alkalinity
                            Minimum recommendation 40mg/L (ppm)
                            Old Ashbeck 20.5
                            Current Ashbeck 38

                            Total hardness
                            Minimum recommendation 50mg/L (ppm)
                            Old Ashbeck 42
                            Current Ashbeck 63

                            LSI at 95C
                            Old Ashbeck -1.46 to -1.64 mild to moderate corrosion, treatment may be needed.
                            Current Ashbeck -0.62 to -0.72 none to mild corrosion

                            I can’t comment as to whether your boilers are impervious to corrosion. How often do you check them?
                            Seem pretty moot anyway, how are you going to buy old Ashbeck going forward?

                                MWJB

                                Thanks. It doesn’t sound too bad when you put it this way. :-)

                                Last time I took out the mushroom I didn’t see any signs of scale. I will keep my eyes peeled and see how it goes.

                                I don’t check the boiler (don’t know how).

                                And I didn’t understand the question about how to buy Ashbeck going forward (is there more than one option?).

                                • MWJB replied to this.

                                    Doram I meant that if the water make up has changed in Ashbeck & you continue to buy it, you can only buy what’s currently on offer (once all the old batches run out).

                                      JesmondJester
                                      Hi JJ. You may wish to read through this water thread. `
                                      Water

                                      Based upon water tests, the TWW packets in combination with RO water that I was then buying produced water that tasted good but resulted in too great a risk of scaling.

                                      As a result, I bought I a ZeroWater jug and use a simple sodium bicarbonate water recipe. I have the recipe downstairs in the kitchen if you need it; can post it tomorrow.

                                      End of story. I now focus on making good tasting espresso.

                                        Have a look at the link on this post it has a simple spreadsheet for direct dosing. Some £20 salesw and you can make your own TWW sachets. The volume of powder is tiny!!

                                        That quantity is the 0.168g for a simple baking soda only water

                                        I make up a bicarb concentrate in a 1 litre bottle and then dilute that when I refill my Lelit E. I may well also use that concentrate to prepare a 1 gallon glass bottle to keep ready under the sink, for when I need a fast refill.

                                        Question for folks: Do you use the same (espresso water) recipe for pour over? Why or why not?

                                          JHCCoffee Why would you? The recommended limit of 40-60ppm Alkalinity tastes fine for brewed coffee, you could go higher or lower to attenuate or push acidity to try and ‘rescue’ a weird coffee, but really it’s a lot of faff for day-today.

                                          Best to stick to one water & be more choosy about the coffee you buy for pour over (preferred origins & roast level, easier said than done her in the UK though).

                                            JHCCoffee Do you use the same (espresso water) recipe for pour over? Why or why not?

                                            Have you actually tried it? I have.

                                            If/when toy do so, let me know what you think, and we can go from there.

                                              dutchy101 Since getting my Skuma I’m feeding the machine with RO water. I haven’t checked alkalinity, but the coffee tastes good to me and I’m hoping I’m getting enough drainage from the service boiler daily (about ¾ cups of tea a day) to keep scale away

                                              Are you using the Skuma Coffee Infuser to add minerals to the RO water or just the RO water on its own? I’m doing the former and the extractions taste very clean.

                                                I’m just using the RO water without any infusion.

                                                Thanks for the reply. I don’t know much about these matters, but I thought that it was necessary to remineralise the RO water (to protect the boiler and pipes and to assist the extraction process).