What's Your End Game Kit

think you are putting words in my mouth

the way you make espresso isnt linear, and gear can be a limiting factor,

you can make dark roasts easier than light, which require better grinders and better temp control, each to their own its not something im that interested in, to be having this sort of discussion

Cuprajake So let me ask you about your wife’s reaction. Did she pick one grinder’s results and say “ambrosial, divine” and with the other declare “putrid, horrid”. You’ll know for certain, however my guess is both were good, just different.

And yes light vs dark is a place where choice of gear has distinctly differing results. And yes, the Duo will be better than the Zero when grinding light roasts. Neither of these are expensive, super-grinders. Both do a fine job, better with some roasts than others.

Again, I’m not arguing that gear makes a difference, only that past a basal quality level, the real gains in the cup depend more on bean selection and skill, than on gear.

Cuprajake Fwiw there are differences in grinders, even my Mrs can blind pick the duo in milk Vs the zero and she doesn’t know coffee lol.

Do these differences mean better no, taste is too personal.

as i said theres no better - just different

how ever in the case of the wife the duo tasted better to her,

Then we have been saying the same thing.

My end game kit is a Mythos grinder and either a Slayer, a KVDW, or a Vostok. The grinder will be a lot easier to achieve… ;)

That said, I’m very happy with the niche Zero so the next upgrade should be the machine.

delta76 All the same thing. Eureka made the original, then Simonelli and VA re-badge them and sell them

dfk41 Is the first one newer version? I might get a good deal on that

delta76 Originally, the Mythos was just that. The main differentiator is the spin speed. I thy the One is the original fast spin and the 2 or Clima Control spins a lot lower. It also has an annoying fan that cools the motor down but in a home environment is useless! The originals are pretty robust and often appear on Ebay for circa £350

Cuprajake i see. I was looking for nouva simonelli. Essential same machine but the eureka is probably older?

dfk41 All the same thing. Eureka made the original, then Simonelli and VA re-badge them and sell them

Well to be precise Nuova Simonelli own Eureka and VA. Have done for a very long time.

delta76 As dfk41 says, all fundamentally the same. I’d go for a Eureka just because it’s the original but i wouldn’t say no to any of them. A Clima would be nice but not really necessary for home use.

JonWoo187 I will gladly say that once a decent level of equipment is setup it’s far more about the skill involved using it as well as the coffee and water. Those chasing the equipment upgrade pipe dream year after year should realize the most important variable is changing by the hour, focus more on the coffee itself and the rest will fall into place.

Another way of saying this is that some look at spending as a shortcut (or alternative) to gaining skill. It usually doesn’t work.

It’s the same problems as hi-fi. It’s hard to get decent results with the entry level kit. It also takes time to learn the difference between so-so and good. Above a certain threshold there are two paths. That threshold is decent repeatable coffee/sound easily achieved with some learned skills. Once you go beyond that, in hi-fi terms a lot of people stop really listening to the music and only really listen to the equipment. In coffee, much the same applies. Unless you are genuinely a super taster, and there are precious few of those, it’s down to aesthetics. I.e there are a few people chasing the ultimate taste but in most cases it’s more about the gear.

BrendaninBrooklyn
I don’t have any experience or knowledge of what chefs in top restaurants but a few articles show that what kind of knives leading chefs use really depends on the chef concerned. On one hand there are those happy to use 25 gbp ones while others prefer 300 gbp top of the line factory knives while yet others even use knives made by hand forgers like the Middleton brand.

https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/knife-used-in-michelin-starred-chefs-kitchens
Py8vp8gdrink/dining/gallery/best-chef-knives-recommended-by-chefs-2900494/nancy-silverton-friedr-bread-knife/

So in a way chefs seem to reflect how home based amateur baristas are like - many prefer budget but quality gear that deliver a certain minimum ywt high standard while others prefer more esoteric and high end gear made to more exacting tolerances. Both believe their gear help them achieve their results.

To me, the lesson of that is - use whatever gear u want to use and if u find great results wirh it, then keep using it with joy.

Rob666 this is I can agree with.

My uncle fixes electronics for a living. Usually hi-fi equipment.

He ended up at a Russian’s house. 100% an oligarch. The issue was a £400,000 turntable that wasn’t working properly. My uncle looked at it and fixed the issue. The customer was very happy.

My uncle then asked the question about whether the guy thought the music he was hearing in his (incredibly expensive) set up was worth what he paid for it. The response was simply ‘For the price I paid… it better be!’

My uncle still believes to this day that the guy wasted huge swaths of money on the setup and a significantly cheaper but well balanced one would have sounded the same.

Verion a significantly cheaper but well balanced one would have sounded the same.

Or better!