Hello! I'm new to the forum, but not new to espresso. I spent my first 4 years pulling from a well-dialed Gaggia Classic Pro, and recently bit the bullet and bought an ECM Purstika with pre-installed flow-control from what I thought to be a reputable distributor. The first machine arrived with a bad OPV out of the box - after a difficult return/exchange process, the second machine arrived and for the first week seemed to work wonderfully. I had it dialed-in really well, and was pulling pseudo-slayer shots with the flow control that were honestly better than my local cafe and then some. When the machine works properly, it is absolutely amazing! Herein is where the problem arises, and, unfortunately - the distributor is less than helpful (And I still have not received a response from ECM…) Machine is turned on, allowed to preheat for 30-60min at minimum. Group head is to temp, boiler to temp. Lever left at down position, flow control left cracked. I used Poland Springs and an in-tank softner, and am religious about my cleaning and upkeep. I did replace the shower screen and group head gasket with a precision screen and silicone gasket, otherwise stock. When I crack the lever and run it without a portafilter initially, it quickly rises in pressure and then levels out. If I subsequently try to pull a shot, or, run it with a backflush/blind basket - it does not build any pressure, pump just runs and runs. If I switch that off, open the flow control and leave the lever at center position for 15 seconds or so, and try again, it then ramps up and builds pressure. This is frustrating, as if its the first morning shot pull I end up wasting a puck and having to grind again. I'm not sure if this is normal behavior or if there is an issue per-se. If I leave the machine powered on and at rest with the lever in the down position and flow control cracked, eventually I see the pressure drop to zero and this issue repeats itself. I was under the impression it should maintain a resting pressure of 1-3bars, and wonder if there is an issue with the OPV or another component. Any help you folks can offer would be wonderful - I appreciate the knowledge and experience you cand lend! Cheers, Dave

Welcome to the forum, plenty of people here can help you. When you say the preinstalled flow control, you mean the one installed on the top of the group? or do you mean the one that's on the front panel?

@"DavecUK"#p59142 Thanks Dave! the one on top of the E61, not the OPV on the right side.

> @"MetalDave"#p59133 When I crack the lever and run it without a portafilter initially, it quickly rises in pressure and then levels out How can the pressure rise without a portafilter in place? Maybe I’m missing something. In all honesty, I don’t actually know what the puristika manometer would register if the flow control valve (on the E61 mushroom) is fully shut and the pump is running. I *think* it would record to whatever the OPV is set to, but I am not 100% sure. I think I read somewhere that the flow control, in its fully “closed position” should still allow some water out. Is yours like so? > @"MetalDave"#p59133 if I leave the machine powered on and at rest with the lever in the down position and flow control cracked, eventually I see the pressure drop to zero and this issue repeats itself. I was under the impression it should maintain a resting pressure of 1-3bars, and wonder if there is an issue with the OPV or another component. Eventually the pressure will equalise and your manometer will register zero. I don’t think that’s an issue.

> @"MetalDave"#p59133 1. Machine is turned on, allowed to preheat for 30-60min at minimum. Group head is to temp, boiler to temp. Lever left at down position, flow control left cracked. > > 2. When I crack the lever and run it without a portafilter initially, it quickly rises in pressure and then levels out. If I subsequently try to pull a shot, or, run it with a backflush/blind basket - it does not build any pressure, pump just runs and runs. > 3. If I switch that off, open the flow control and leave the lever at centre position for 15 seconds or so, and try again, it then ramps up and builds pressure. > > 4 If I leave the machine powered on and at rest with the lever in the down position and flow control cracked, eventually I see the pressure drop to zero and this issue repeats itself. I was under the impression it should maintain a resting pressure of 1-3bars, and wonder if there is an issue with the OPV or another component. 1. Always leave the flow control approx. 1/3 open due to expansion and extraction…never leave it closed or "cracked" which I take as almost closed, although it's an imprecise term. 2. By crack the lever do you mean lifting full and the pump running (not the middle position between the cams), when you say it quickly rises in pressure…what pressure? 3. is this pressure building on the gauge on the front panel, or the one you have fitted on the group (I assume you have fitted and extra one on the group. In fact for 2 above which gauges are reading what? 4. On which gauge Your next steps should be first answer my questions briefly and fully…then depending on the answers you may need to disassemble the flow control….which hopefully you have done already to (a), check there is enough lubricant (b) ensure you crack it before is seizes on over time so you can maintain it every 3 months. https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/blog/745-lelit-flow-control-valve-and-coffee-sensor-version

@"DavecUK"#p59162 Dave, thank you so much for all the awesome information and knowledge! I do always leave the flow control open, I should've been more clear that by cracked I meant open. As for pressure rise when the lever is fully actuated I was referring to the machines pressure gauge, not the flow control gauge. I have not pulled the flow control apart, as the machine is new and only been with me about 10 days - given the first one was bad, I didn't want to start mucking around with this in case it needed to be returned, again. I'm going to plan to do exactly what you said, however once I am certain that I will be keeping this machine. I can't imagine using it for a couple of weeks pulling 2-3 doubles a day will be an issue - but if you believe it will be please definitely let me know! 5. It worked perfectly this morning, so I couldn't replicate the intermittent issue. I'm wondering if this is from a headspace/gap in the boiler, allowing some air to enter and the pump is losing prime- this was suggested to me and it made sense, but I would love your take on it. Thanks again! \-Dave

@"MetalDave"#p59196 I'm using numbering so there is no misunderstandings (please do the same for me), I "think" I have worked out what it is you are describing and on what gauges. 1. OK I understand now 2. You didn't answer this, also didn't clarify on which gauge it's not building pressure, group (if you have one, see 3) or panel gauge? 3. I understand and from your answer I "assume" you have one on the group as well, is this correct, just so we're sure? I also forgot to ask about your term "centre" position for the brew lever, can you please explain, do you mean fully up, or the position as described in point 2?? 4. Then this is completely normal 5. I told ECM what to put in the boiler to avoid a headspace issue, so it would take a significant leak to cause that…that leak would really only happen when hot. It would also quickly fill the headspace when the pump runs. Does the pump sound normal when it's not building pressure? *Check by starting a shot then removing the feed feed tube from the water tank as the pump is running, note the sound change as the tube empties. Note how it sounds…* Make a video showing the problem, if you can, unlisted on YT, then paste the link here.

> @"DavecUK"#p59199 You didn’t answer this, also didn’t clarify on which gauge it’s not building pressure, group (if you have one, see 3) or panel gauge? He said “cracked” means open, and he should’ve been clearer. He also said the gauge is the panel gauge on the machine - not on the group.

> @"MediumRoastSteam"#p59201 He said “cracked” means open, and he should’ve been clearer. He also said the gauge is the panel gauge on the machine - not on the group. It was a question aimed at a different comment he made…where he didn't specify which gauge…and I'm still not 100% clear he has a gauge on the group.

@"DavecUK"#p59204 Hey Dave, sorry for all the confusion. I'm battling COVID and not the sharpest right now. I have no idea where the "5. " came from in my response as I didn't number it. 2. It is the machine pressure gauge, not the group mounted gauge. I do mean lifting the lever fully and activating the pump. Pressure on the machines gauge rises. 3. I do have a group mounted pressure gauge. I have three positions - fully down, middle without pump activated, an fully up with the pump activated. Macnine gauge rises to 9.5, flow gauge stays at 0. 4. You indicated this is normal. I wasn't sure what you meant. 5. This occurrs generally when hot - timer kicks it on at 6am, and Im usually seeing this around 7-8am when I get around to making espresso in the am. The pump sounds normal. I will try that with the tube removal from water supply when I pull a shot. I tried to make a video this morning, but the problem did not replicate or occur.

@"MetalDave"#p59209 3. You referred to the centre position in an earlier reply, which of these 3 positions was it > @"MetalDave"#p59133 If I switch that off, open the flow control and leave the lever at center position for 15 seconds or so, and try again, it then ramps up and builds pressure.

ECM Puristika - need help diagnosing

MetalDave

MediumRoastSteam I have sent ECM four emails as well and they are completely unresponsive aside from the initial “we received your message” response - its been two weeks.

@DavecUK I was able to get a video of it this morning, heres a dropbox link:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/8w2ebhtk7h4kkf51d8sr5/ECM-Puristika-problem?rlkey=iftjh4794pp8qfrzbflhgwxn6&dl=0

DavecUK

MetalDave @DavecUK I was able to get a video of it this morning, heres a dropbox link:

I did get it to work eventually (and I had to download it), honestly it’s easier to put on YouTube as unlisted!

The pump sounds a bit like it’s running against a blockage, but even then the sound is a bit quiet, definitely not running dry.

Is water flooding out of the expansion valve tube leading back to the tank? If not then you should try a new pump. I should add a little water is quite normal.

ECM won’t really get involved because your warranty is with the Retailer and they should resolve the problem.

MediumRoastSteam

My very brief experience in sending emails to ECM was the same. But then, to my surprise, the retailer here in the UK phoned me up (they joined the dots) and the matter has been resolved - took months though.

I believe ECM has bigger fish to fry as they say over here :-)

Lelit on the other hand… Back in 2020, when I interacted with them, their customer support was excellent.

MetalDave

MediumRoastSteam I heard ECM was reputable, I’m beginning to regret buying this - two dud machines in a row, and the company doesn’t respond - but if I fix it myself, warranty is void. Thats a pretty raw deal for almost $2k USD.

MediumRoastSteam

In all honesty, your reseller should take more accountability and responsibility as the warranty is with them. The fact your reseller is unresponsive is far from ideal.

It’s quite unfortunate that you had two dud machines - and I understand how frustrate you might be as you have technically expected ECM to be more of a premium brand. However, to be fair to ECM, the pump having an intermittent fault is a very difficult one to spot in QC.

MetalDave

MediumRoastSteam Agreed, the first machines bad OPV seems like it would’ve been easier to catch. If you and/or @DavecUK can watch the video in the dropbox link, please let me know your thoughts on the issue, and if the pump seems suspect.

MediumRoastSteam

MetalDave - Now… That’s weird. That must be incredibly frustrating.

When you activate the pump and there’s no pressure registering in either gauges… Is there water going back into the water tank (you can see water going back into the water tank towards the end of the video - but then the gauge was registering pressure).

MetalDave

MediumRoastSteam @DavecUK It didn’t do it this morning, so I am not certain, but I do recall water coming back into the resevoir. I will check again when it recurrs.

DavecUK

MetalDave It didn’t do it this morning, so I am not certain, but I do recall water coming back into the resevoir. I will check again when it recurrs.

It depends how much, some at 9 bar is normal as it bypasses to maintain the pressure, gushing out with 2 bar isn’t.

MetalDave

DavecUK None at 2 bar, steady at 9

DavecUK

MetalDave None at 2 bar, steady at 9

I really think it might be a faulty pump….video might help with the diagnosis, or for £17, get a, Ulka pump and fit it.

MetalDave

DavecUK I posted a video link the other day, you said you were able to watch. What do you need me to video?

MediumRoastSteam

MetalDave - maybe ask your retailer if they can send you a pump and ask them if they are happy for you to fit it - just trying not to void warranty etc.

DavecUK

MetalDave Sorry my mistake, I remeber warching and thinking pump didn’t sound right.

MetalDave

MediumRoastSteam Retailer has yet to respond, thankfully ECM finallt did.

MediumRoastSteam

MetalDave - at last a glimmer of hope there. Let’s hope this resolved. 👍

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