Decent owners - Warming up the porta filter

MediumRoastSteam

I have a question, mainly focused on Decent owners.

If the machine takes such a short time to heat up, how do you bring your portafilter to group temperature? The PF looks similar to an E61, so with an equivalent thermal mass. Us, mere mortals with “normal” machines, leave the PF inserted loosely in the group while the machine heats up. It is also common practice and observed on good coffee shops.

Now… what do you do on a decent machine? Do you heat it up using a different heat source? If the answer is “I don’t, it does not need to” - why is it different for “normal” machines? I’m curious.

JahLaza

MediumRoastSteam great question, and one I didn’t consciously think about until now. I unconsciously always ensure the pf is in the group for heat up so that all things are equal etc. But, thinking about it in this context, the decent has temp probes at the puck,the coffee in the puck is not going to be much affected by the surrounding pf mass temp, unless it was all sitting there for ages, so I’m now thinking it probably doesn’t really matter?

Cuprajake

Same it gets hot anyway. Fwiw I’ve been one never to do that lol, with my machines I’ve always had 2 on the go so ones always cold

LMSC

A good question by MRS! I always wondered why it matters, though never tested tasting shots with and without.

The taste difference, which is possible, may show up in black than with milk. :-)

Cuprajake

Don’t know how much it matters that’s getting into the nerdy side I suppose,

I know when you look at the decent graph they talk about the initial dip in temp as the water hits room temp coffee, and even in a hot pf the coffee is still going to be warm, I’ve actually seen people put a pf with coffee in the group head and leave to ‘thermal soak’

LMSC

Experimenting two shots is a good idea Jake, as you can see the temp in real time.

Edit: same coffee and tasting obviously:-)

HarveyMushman

I understand it with a spouted PF but with a bottomless literally none of the coffee comes in contact with the PF so I’m not sure it matters.

The basket obviously does but that’s going to heat up in next to no time.

My guess is that it’s a practice left over from when everyone used spouts, where it definitely does matter.

JammyDodger

HarveyMushman I understand it with a spouted PF but with a bottomless literally none of the coffee comes in contact with the PF so I’m not sure it matters.

The basket obviously does but that’s going to heat up in next to no time

I think this is the answer here. I don’t feel it matters what temperature the PF is from a taste perspective to be honest, as the DE1 will measure and correct this by modifying the temperature of the water going to the puck to compensate. I have done back to back testing with both cold and pre-heated PFs and don’t find any detectable difference in taste to my palate.

As HarveyMushman mentioned, with a naked PF it will not affect the temperature of the espresso, but I imagine a cold spouted PF would certainly have done so.

LMSC

HarveyMushman bottomless literally none of the coffee comes in contact with the PF so I’m not sure it matters.

Isn’t the basket is warmer than cold? It may be useful to test two things; taste in blind testing and the EY over a variety of bags (may be 10-12). Jammydodger doesn’t see a difference in taste.

tompoland

The Decent portafilter will get plently hot if left to it’s own devices over 30 minutes but when I use mine it’s normally from a cold start or from sleep mode. Either way I accelerate getting it heated by using the ‘flush’ button that is designed, in part, for that purpose. I’ll normally flush twice if its a cold start and once if its coming out of sleep mode. And like most things on the Decent, you can change the default duration of the flush with a couple of taps on the screen.

tompoland

A drop of three degrees makes a big difference in the taste of the espresso, at least for medium/light and light roasts.

It’s important that the basket is hot so that the brew temperature is not dropping significantly.

@JammyDodger I’m aware that the Adaptive preset does some sort of adjustment during the pour. Do you know when the Decent takes a temperature reading from for this? I guess from the probe in the group head somehow? If so, I’m not sure how it would know what the temperature was at the bottom of the puck.

JammyDodger

tompoland my understanding Tom is that the probe is checking the temperature of the coffee slurry, and adjusting incoming water temperature in all profiles to ensure this matches the desired puck temperature. I agree there is a detectable difference in taste in shots pulled at a profile specifying 90’C when compared to 93’C. I don’t believe however a cooler portafilter causes a large problem here as this is compensated for by the incoming water temperature of the DE1.

The thermometer is not able to measure temperature at the bottom of the puck, but unless we leave the ground coffee in the machine to completely warm to group level (I suspect this may not be desirable or even possible to raise it to 93’C in a naked PF!), this is an issue which applies across all machines, even if the PF is hot when the shot starts.

tompoland

JammyDodger don’t believe however a cooler portafilter causes a large problem here as this is compensated for by the incoming water temperature of the DE1.

Very interesting, thinking of how I could confirm this. Maybe with a Pesado TPD portafilter device. Pop it is cold, see what the temperature reading is on the display, then repeat with it pre heated.

Would the temperature on the display change with these two scenarios?

I’ll give it a go and let you know.

Video on the way.

Cuprajake

ive started leaving the pf in the group through warm up, that 3-5 mins gets it hot enough for me, the mrs goes in milk so not fussed haha