Even extensive decibel testing in a kitchen environment, with decibel meter placed at average ear position, the grinder under cupboards, pulled forward etc..

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Chriss29 I’m getting the impression for me that some beans are better in different grinders, I think @MediumRoastSteam alluded to this when comparing the zero to the duo with a particular bean where the zero was better.

Yes. I think that was referenced in one of posts above. For me, the Duo and the Zero are very similar, for the coffee I usually drink, which I call it medium/light. The Duo has a slight edge, there’s more clarify. The Zero muddles things, and has more texture. But it’s all so subtle, to me, that if they were not side by side, I’d struggle to tell there was any difference at all. To the point that when I only had the Zero, and at times went to Dave’s to try some coffee from the Duo (I brought my own coffee) there was nothing screaming at me which made a pronounced difference. To me, it tasted the same. I couldn’t tell the difference like that.

There was incidence, with a particular coffee (I think it was from Django) that the Duo produced something significantly worse than the Zero, maybe due to what I said above. The Zero just muddled it all, and that tasted better to me. But that was that only instance.

    i have said for a while that grinders are more closely related than that is made out to be, think youtubers,

    and as ive said imo you can do more with different baskets, profiles and extraction methods,

    im going to give the ssp a week, have a play and make my mind up if not someone will get a bargain haha

    Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

    DavecUK
    Dave, I did say that Nuff said on this topic but since you referenced me in your post above, I think that deserves a reply.

    Your knowledge and experience of coffee equipment Is indeed extensive and nobody would dispute that at all, least of all me. However while I respect your knowledge, that does not mean that we as lay people without technical knowledge should unquestioningly surrender our own judgment or tastes to experts concerning the coffee we like or the gear we want.

    In all my posts in this thread, I have not held myself out as having any technical knowledge or expertise. I try to make my points baded on logic and reason resting on commonly held presuppositions. It is no different on this thread discussion - to boil down to the shortest compass of what I was arguing for, it is that niche is missing out on a significsnt business opportunity to cater to those who want a clarity focused burr option by only being prepared to offer as the espresso burrs the 151B.

    That being the case, what then is the purpose of you flexing at me with your great technical expertise on grinders ?

    My point to jake about speed of the niche was two fold - (1) the torque is said to be so great that it should easily handle ssp burrs - this was agreed by everybody including yourself (2) that I don’t understand why was he saying that putting in ssp burrs would mess up the speed of the grinder since the grinder is already supposed to be used for either the stock filter burrs or the stock espresso burrs. Obviously the speed of the grinder won’t change regardless of which stock burr is chosen to be used. As u implicitly agreed and did not dispute in your post above, the stock filter burr is very different from the stock espresso burr as it is not possible for any one burr set to be optimal for both espresso and filter. Thus the optimal speed for the stock filter burrs would be very different from the optimal speed for the stock espresso burrs and therefore the grinder is already sub optimal for at least one of the stock burr sets, or for both. If that is the case, what is the difference with using ssp burrs in the duo? It cannot be more different from the 151B burrs as compared to the stock filter burrs. I don’t think this question by me has been answered by jake nor by you…

        As Niche Duo owner myself. I absolutely love this grinder. Not just the coffee , but the looks and workflow.

          i didnt say the speed had changed, i said they took longer to grind.

          Cuprajake My SSP MP burrs are taking 45s to grind 18g of beans. This is double the mazzer equivalent

          as is the stock mazzer burs take about 20s while the mazzer filter take about 10s.

          there is more than enough torque but when you look at the cut of the burr its totally different to a ‘stock’ burr from many manufacturers, no pre breakers.

          for me, im not very filter driven, never really have been, i prefer the kick of espresso lol

          Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

              Cuprajake
              Dont worry - I did not understand u as saying that the grinder has itself changed its speed of rpm. I took u to mean thar the speed in terms of the set rpm of the grinder had been optimised for the 151b burrs and thus it would take longer than it would be otherwise to grind if the rpm had been optimised for the new set of burrs.

                drdre89
                It does look and sound like a good grinder from the perspective of its mechanicals. Which is why I thought it would expand its market even more if it offered alternative burr options. Even mazzer itself is now offering high clarity focused burrs for the new philos and a more traditional set of burrs as the alternative burr option, so this is a good idea for niche to also follow its own burr supplier in doing …

                  popular size though 64mm

                  Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

                  chlorox

                  The duo has an RPM of around ⅓ of normal grinders. This allows it to have a higher torque and possibly other benefits (reduction of coffee grinding against itself).

                  The reason the Duo can still have an acceptable grind time is because it uses commercial burrs with aggressive teeth designed to be used with a high torque 3phase grinder. The duo still grinds ⅓ slower as the commercial grinder, but when the original grind time is 6s, 18 isn’t that bad. Going from a 17s grind time to a 50s grind time would be more painful.

                  Edit: I should also mention that the 151b burrs should not be used in most consumer grinders. They won’t have the torque to properly drive them.

                    Loonster no sorry. it would depend which grinder they are in too. For example the DF DLC 83mm burrs will grinder a lot faster in the DF83V at say 1200RPM verus in the Duo.

                    If there is one in particular you had an interest in, or a comparision of two, let me know and I’ll see if I have them installed and if so then I can run a comparision for you.

                      DavecUK The reason a specific filter burr exists, is because “elephant in the room”, a burr that does both espresso and filter well, doesn’t exist and technically can’t.

                      That’s been my suspicion for some time. There always seems to be a compromsie with an omni burr. Still, some come close e.g. the Hypernova Ultra S from which I can derive a pretty darned tasty espresso and filter - ditto for the C60.

                      But agreed, it’s really preferable to have a dedicated grinder/burr for filter and another for espresso.

                      Given my Significant Other’s tolerance of my obsession, I am fortunate to have grinders/burrs dedicated to

                      1. light espresso (SSP HU)
                      2. medium/light espresso (Varia Hypernova Ultra S)
                      3. medium espresso with milk (DF DLC)
                      4. filter for clarity (Ode Gen 2/ SSP MP)
                      5. filter for body (Mazzer 151F)

                      I appreciate that would be grounds (pun intended) for divorce in most households but it illustrates that in an idyllic world (IMHO) we’d all have a grinder that was 100% fit for purpose, and we wouldn’t have to compromise.

                      Other than for travel because I’ve found it quite challenging to fit 5 grinders into a carry on when flying (I don’t trust “them” with my check-in bag).