At that price, I’d settle for a black one 😎
Ade Smith. ACS Evo Leva v2. Kafatek Flat max 2, ssw 2024. Mazzer Philos, Craig Lyn HG-1 prime., WW key mk1.
Hoffman on the Duo
MWJB
Like i said, charts aside, I know what I am tasting with the grinders that I have and I migrated from a traditional type commercial level conical burr grinder to ssp flat burrs because the latter are just that much more clear to my palate. So the last thing I would want is a flat burr grinder with a traditional profile flat burr set that yelds almost the same result as a tradirional type conical burr grinder - and there are many potential customers like me, based on what i read on the forums. It seems to me that niche already has a good 83mm grinder thar would meet this need very well but for a appropriate set of burrs - so why not provide that choice and win more market share?
I would be very interested in seeing a side by side comparison of the top grinders, without mentioning the word burrs or taste. In other words design and work flow. Over to someone!
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Would be very interesting to see all the grinders side by side
Blind tests
No mention of make model or burrs
JUST TASTE
I’m sure the brain changes the taste for some people based on available information, not what is in their mouth, even when it is not 🐮 based.
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Ade Smith. ACS Evo Leva v2. Kafatek Flat max 2, ssw 2024. Mazzer Philos, Craig Lyn HG-1 prime., WW key mk1.
chlorox Just state the model of SSP burr that does what you say (makes espresso coffee “much more clear”) then people can buy it and fit it to their 83mm grinder from whatever manufacturer.
What Niche do/don’t do is of no concern to me. Of all the grinder manufacturers there are, how many retain warranty status after burr swaps to other/non-recommended brands of burr? For those that do retain it, what does the warranty look like in the event of a catastrophe? Do you get sent a free replacement grinder? Does the grinder go back to base? Are there excess charges due where you are clearly liable for damage caused, due to poor assembly? People have been changing burrs on grinders long before they started to be concerned about warranties, or what the manufacturer says.
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MWJB
I never said my taste buds are the arbiter for everybody. There does seem however to be a considerable number of people on the forums who agree with me on ssp burrs so it seems to me to be a good idea to cater to that market by adding that as an option.
On burr swapping and warranty, niche seems to expressly forbid burr changing on pain of voiding the warranty which goes beyond keeping silent on the subject. They don’t want anyone to do so on their grinder…
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chlorox I never said my taste buds are the arbiter for everybody. There does seem however to be a considerable number of people on the forums who agree with me on ssp burrs
Sure, I don’t expect you to be able to cater for everyone’s individual taste/preference but you seem confident that there is consensus to support a recommendation (there are many recommendations made, regarding all kinds of coffee products, offered & taken in good faith & accepted as such)…which, once again, you seem coy about doing.
Out of interest, did your grinder come with the SSP 83mm burrs installed?
chlorox On burr swapping and warranty, niche seems to expressly forbid burr changing on pain of voiding the warranty which goes beyond keeping silent on the subject. They don’t want anyone to do so on their grinder…
How do you know, what Niche did or did not test on their Duo during testing? Interested to know where you get your information from.
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MWJB
Recommendation? I am not making a recommendation. I am saying there are substantial numbers of people on the forums who appear to believe that ssp burrs bring more clarity to the cup (to varying degrees) compared to more traditional burrs and especially to conical burrs- which represents a significant market that niche can capitalise on by simply adding such an option. Isn’t that a fairly inoffensive and self evident point?
I don’t own a 83mm grinder. I would have considered the niche duo if it came with a burr set optimised for clarity like the ssp burrs though i am more inclined to hold out for a cheaper 98mm option.
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I am bemused by why merely questioning if adding a burr option would be a good idea for the niche is found by some of the people here to be almost heretical…
chlorox You make statements…….based on what? The Niche warranty is only 12 months. If playing is so important to you, either void the warranty or wait a year and please yourself. I am saying that you are making assumptions and what I would like to know, is based on what……….
chlorox The Chinese are pleased for folks to take a cheap, bang ordinary grinder and replace their on the whole pretty poor burrs if fitting SSP or similar suddenly makes it a go to item…….Niche are not
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chlorox I am bemused by why merely questioning if adding a burr option would be a good idea for the niche is found by some of the people here to be almost heretical…
I think SSP burrs are good, very well made, slightly different flavour profile..Not as huge a difference as some make out, however Mazzer and SSP I do believe make some of the finest burrs out there. .
I don’t agree that Niche should supply SSP burrs, that’s very difficult to do in quantity and makes the situation complex. I thought about whether they should supply the grinder with No burrs, just empty carriers….which is also problematic, because it’s then becomes difficult to test the grinders, especially as Niche test a large proportion of all their grinders to ensure customer satisfaction and the quality of what they produce.
I do agree with you wholeheartedly that Niche could produce a Validated burrs list that would basically not invalidate your warranty by using them except of course, should you damage the carriers (grinder) installing said burrs…e.g strip threads, dropping them and bending a sweep arm etc…. The grinder is clearly capable of handling any burr thrown at it as it’s probably the only grinder out there that can chew through 18g of green coffee!!
Their difficulty would be dealing with the large number of inevitable questions from people saying “this burr isn’t on your list, do you support it?”, or the equally irritating “Do you intend to support these burrs?”. These questions will arise even if they put, please don’t ask these sort of questions…the list is the list. The other issue is grind time, different burrs may well extend grind time, again a potential cause of questions “I saw a video, it ground in 22s, I put validated burrs in now it’s taking x seconds, is something wrong”. Never underestimate the ability for people to ask questions that make you scratch your heat or think RTFM, or more properly RTFW (ebsite).
Mazzer production processes are super consistent and the burrs always stay within very tight tolerance for thickness and diameter….SSP might well introduce different thicknesses and diameters. I’m not sure they do and the ones I have seem very consistent, but it’s a very small sample…whereas I checked a very large quantity of Mazzer 83mm burrs.
SSP from time to time bring out new burrs and retire old ones…but it’s not hard to ask SSP for a sample of new SSP burrs as they come out and validate them.
The final point to consider is that Mazzer have been good for Niche and supply the very large number of burrs required for the Niche Zero and over the years a great deal of confidence has built up not only on Mazzers ability to supply in quantity, but at a consistently high quality.
So validation I think could and should be done, but not having different burr options for sale. You buy it with 1 or 2 carriers, already fitted with Mazzer burrs….then later are free to use any burrs on the validated list.
P.S. As for the Chinese burrs, for me the jury is out on those and why people suddenly think they are fantastic based on what influencers say….is beyond me. And for longevity, who knows.
If warranty is important, then don’t mess with it. It may be difficult to establish if the user error has resulted in something not working. Niche isn’t the only one that prohibits tampering with the products under warranty. So, either we don’t buy it we don’t like, or wait until the warranty expiry or fiddle with it straightaway at our own risks. 😊