https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpoJ-6x7fFQ

I’ve just watched it and was completely distracted by the view counter increasing by the hundred’s every few minutes. Incredible that he carries this much “clout” and I imagine the responsibility must be both a blessing and a curse at times, after all one man’s meat can be another man’s poison. Generally a thorough review but never having owned a duo I wouldn’t like to comment on his findings .

Was skeptical of him saying they tasted the same until he backed it up with the particle test results. Guess those mazzer flats are holding it back.

Always enjoy watching his videos. A few observations below would be appropriate. - I haven’t seen the need to RDT since day 1. Some medium dark and dark coffee do create traces of static. The filter burrs spray the chaffs as static most of the time. It’s a good riddance in filter as I don’t like them at all. 😁 IMO, we don’t need to RDT. - I do not have a zero to compare the espresso. It’s a huge step up from JX Pro. However, compared to the clarity, and flavour on filter, I have to say these two are less pronounced as the espresso gives a balanced cup. I do agree that it’s not convenient, at least for me, to swap the burrs 2-3 times a day to switch between filter and espresso. It is very easy and takes less than a minute to swap, but I am lazy and can’t be asked! 😊 Good to hear he liked the solid build guilty, work flow, motor, no RPM and the price point. It is, however, unfair comparing a very expensive grinder with the Duo. I wish he had said it is a very good value as a combo. I still think it is - espresso or both. 😊 It is great he did not say one will have to zero for filter every time you swap. 😁

It must just be me that regularly changes the burrs, I have a filter first thing and then swap out for espresso the rest of the day.

The stock burrs are traditional, everyone knows that, that's why most manufacturers supply SSP.

Another thing is - espresso burrs set isn’t meant for filter as a daily driver. It is plain and simple.

I think he had some valid complaints-- namely that in today's market with what has come out since the zero, and presumably what the duo will have to compete against over the next few years, is that they could have paired it with a more competitive single burr option.

> @"washed"#p62457 they could have paired it with a more competitive single burr option. Would you like to name such a beast that also keeps to the same price point and is readily available in large numbers please

I don't think he is destroying a product with his review, he's just saying it's not the game changer that the Zero was. Yes there's a lot more competition in the market these days but choice isn't a bad thing and will drive manufacturers to improve their products. I also like the honesty that he couldn't taste the difference between the Zero and Duo, a lot of influencers give the impression that they're super tasters but I'm not always convinced that their palate would stand up to some proper blind tasting.

@"dfk41"#p62458 The company behind the DF grinders offer their own DLC-coated burrs now to replace the often-meh'd italmills. For example.

Hoffman on the Duo

drdre89

As Niche Duo owner myself. I absolutely love this grinder. Not just the coffee , but the looks and workflow.

chlorox

drdre89
It does look and sound like a good grinder from the perspective of its mechanicals. Which is why I thought it would expand its market even more if it offered alternative burr options. Even mazzer itself is now offering high clarity focused burrs for the new philos and a more traditional set of burrs as the alternative burr option, so this is a good idea for niche to also follow its own burr supplier in doing …

Cuprajake

i didnt say the speed had changed, i said they took longer to grind.

Cuprajake My SSP MP burrs are taking 45s to grind 18g of beans. This is double the mazzer equivalent

as is the stock mazzer burs take about 20s while the mazzer filter take about 10s.

there is more than enough torque but when you look at the cut of the burr its totally different to a ‘stock’ burr from many manufacturers, no pre breakers.

for me, im not very filter driven, never really have been, i prefer the kick of espresso lol

chlorox

Cuprajake
Dont worry - I did not understand u as saying that the grinder has itself changed its speed of rpm. I took u to mean thar the speed in terms of the set rpm of the grinder had been optimised for the 151b burrs and thus it would take longer than it would be otherwise to grind if the rpm had been optimised for the new set of burrs.

Cuprajake

popular size though 64mm

Loonster

chlorox

The duo has an RPM of around ⅓ of normal grinders. This allows it to have a higher torque and possibly other benefits (reduction of coffee grinding against itself).

The reason the Duo can still have an acceptable grind time is because it uses commercial burrs with aggressive teeth designed to be used with a high torque 3phase grinder. The duo still grinds ⅓ slower as the commercial grinder, but when the original grind time is 6s, 18 isn’t that bad. Going from a 17s grind time to a 50s grind time would be more painful.

Edit: I should also mention that the 151b burrs should not be used in most consumer grinders. They won’t have the torque to properly drive them.

Loonster

@tompoland do you have a chart of grind times with the various burrs you tested?

tompoland

Loonster no sorry. it would depend which grinder they are in too. For example the DF DLC 83mm burrs will grinder a lot faster in the DF83V at say 1200RPM verus in the Duo.

If there is one in particular you had an interest in, or a comparision of two, let me know and I’ll see if I have them installed and if so then I can run a comparision for you.

tompoland

DavecUK The reason a specific filter burr exists, is because “elephant in the room”, a burr that does both espresso and filter well, doesn’t exist and technically can’t.

That’s been my suspicion for some time. There always seems to be a compromsie with an omni burr. Still, some come close e.g. the Hypernova Ultra S from which I can derive a pretty darned tasty espresso and filter - ditto for the C60.

But agreed, it’s really preferable to have a dedicated grinder/burr for filter and another for espresso.

Given my Significant Other’s tolerance of my obsession, I am fortunate to have grinders/burrs dedicated to

light espresso (SSP HU)
medium/light espresso (Varia Hypernova Ultra S)
medium espresso with milk (DF DLC)
filter for clarity (Ode Gen 2/ SSP MP)
filter for body (Mazzer 151F)

I appreciate that would be grounds (pun intended) for divorce in most households but it illustrates that in an idyllic world (IMHO) we’d all have a grinder that was 100% fit for purpose, and we wouldn’t have to compromise.

Other than for travel because I’ve found it quite challenging to fit 5 grinders into a carry on when flying (I don’t trust “them” with my check-in bag).

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