Home Security and Smart Home
What is the take on home assistant or Open Hab, if we find Laxone is very expensive? Thx
Interesting thread …. which I seem to have missed.
My take, which I’m not necessarily suggesting suits anybody else, is to consider security and home automation as not necessarily linked.
For me, home automation is about our convenience. And nowt else. Part of that is what data I am prepared to let leak to the likes of Amazon (not too much) or Google (absolutely nothing if I can prevent it without massive inconvenience). So, I have a few Echo devices and some smart bulbs that let me turn lights on/off or dim, by voice (or switch/sensor, as well, in a couple of cases), and play internet radio. Not much else, and no way am I connecting cameras to that.
Security is a different issue (for me) and I approach that with two different philosophies. Those are ‘obvious’ and ‘non-obvious’. Non-obvious involves some physical measures that are going to make getting in non-trivial. The obvious category is things that anyone walking/driving past might see, like alarm boxes, cameras or gates, walls, etc.
The other factor is to consider who are are seeking to protect from. The meaures I would take against the casual local ne’er-do-well opportunistic a-hole are very different from what might work against a professional. For the latter, well, unless you’re setting up Fort Knox, the White House or Buckingham Palace (and at least two of those have had well-publicised breaches) it’s a case of not keeping out really serious burglars unless you’re spending mega-money.
All you can do is either make it hard enough that hopefully they target someone else, or minimise the risk profile by not having anything to target that would make it worth their while in the first place. Or, potentially, by being crafty enough to appear to not have nothing worth their effort, and hiding it really cleverly if they try anyway.
But be aware, there is (in my opinion) a very bad middle ground. I’d advise against taking suffiiently expensive preventative measures to keep the casual local idiots out, by going far enough to hang out a sign to the serious burglars saying “something here worth nicking”.
So …. take all obvious basic steps - decent doors/windows, don’t leave ground floor doors unlocked and secure windows etc if you go out, chain any ladders etc down, or better yet, don’t leave anything like that laying around in the first place. That’s a set of examples, not a comprehensive list. Oh, and basic alarm boxes etc might deter the casual thief but too good a system risks advertising yourself to a more serious class of scumbag.
You might even want to consider the alarm box you appear to have not being the one you actually do. Oh, and hard-wired is better, IMHO, than wifi for security functions. Other measures might include anti-climb paint, nasty bushes (with nasty needles ;) ) along fence lines to deter people climbing over, etc. Oh, and be aware of what you can do legally, and what you can’t - broken glass on the tops of walls for fences isn’t a bright idea, but a few bushes with loads of 2″ thorns or needles …. <grin>.
Less obvious? Think about how you might get in if you had to break in? Where are the less secure points? Garage door is often one. You can also consider re-inforced door frames, and wood-clad steel-cored doors, etc. These aren’t that cheap, and even less so as a retrofit, but if done well, will be invisible from the outside. Good luck to anyone trying to kick my doors in …. when they get out of the foot/ankle plaster. ;)
That kind of measure is effective against casuals, without screaming “something to protect” to professionals.
Another factor, and it’s a major one …. the size, type and location of where you live. Living in a Beverly Hills mansion is going to present a different risk profile to a council house in Stoke on Trent, Deptford or well, anywhere really. That will be part of assessing who you are protecting against.
Finally, consider exactly what you are protecting, what it is worth, and what both the cost and inconvenience factors of serious security are against the value of what you’re protecting, and/or where a more sensible approach is either to not hve extremely valuable items in the first place, or to ensure you insure them thoroughly.
One reason I don’t have an extensive collection of Monet’s and Van Gogh’s is I can’t protect them. So it’s convenient I also can’t afford them. I can afford nice watches, jewelry, etc but chose not to have them, partly for security reasons. Also because while I like watches, I don’t like them enough to pay what a collection would cost. And the one I do have …. insured.
I don’t want to live in a secure bunker, partly because of the inconvenience. I also don’t want the worry of loads of expensive and highly portable stuff. Sure, some stuff is expensive (though not in Picasso territory, or anything close) but some camera gear, computer gear etc is worth a fair bit. So, I have good insurance and if the worst happens, it can all be easily replaced.
I take reasonable steps to deter casual riff-raff, plus some “non-obvious” measures, but don’t have anything likely to attract serious professionals, and not much to attract even less serious ones …. that isn’t insured thoroughly.
We each have to calibrate our response to security according to our circumstances, what we’re trying to protect, who we’re protecting against and how much cost and inconvience taking more measure would involve, and whether it’s worth it or not. It is easy to get carried away with what you can do rather than what really makes sense to do, and to omit considering that more heavyweight measures might actually have a downside, in marking you as a target.
All IMHO, and YMMV.
5 simple things can make a house/garden less interesting compared to a neighbour’s house and cost little to nothing.
- Beware of the dog signs
- If you have a garage, use it a lot for the car (then it’s not always clear when you are in or out)
- Unless you are using a downstairs room at that moment, keep the curtains closed (Kitchen and Utility don’t count). Saves energy too.
- Turn on LBC, Talk Radio in the kitchen, or similar when you go out. Burglars like it when you’re not home), so don’t let them know you’re not there. There are also deterrent sound, but they don’t work as well
- Lights on routines. (linked to sunset sunrise)
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Putting smart devices on cloud is no. It should stay local, subject to secured access if away from home is required. This is straight forward.
We can never protect us from determined hackers or professional theivea.
We all use our garage as a storage, is it not? Like all British homes, our garage is packed. 😁
Playing a radio or a TV is an interesting idea. It needs to be done remotely to make it effective. Otherwise, it will run 24 × 7!
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LMSC Playing a radio or a TV is an interesting idea. It needs to be done remotely to make it effective. Otherwise, it will run 24 × 7!
Simply put it on a schedule or a routine you run when you go out. When I leave the house, on goes a Talk radio channel (Alexa Device). If that deters a burglar, it’s worth it. When Going away, it doesn’t hurt to ask your neighbour to park on your drive, if your car isn’t going to be there for days/weeks.
It’s important to make people unsure if anyone is at home.
P.S. It might even be possible to fire up the Alexa if there is activity detected by the doorbell…I might try that one.
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I have no objection to putting some smart devices on internet access, and some (like Alexa) won’t work without internet access. This, I grant, is a trade-off between security/privacy on the one hand, and veratility and convenience on the other. I’m prepared to give up a bit of security/privacy for that functionality. So, given that I use them for internet radio, it’s hard to avoid having them on the ’net. I have no problems with certain light switches, too. Anythng with a camera, or security implications, not a chance.
I have some IFTTT-type routines for my absence, controlling lights and scheduled noises, like radio BUT …. one weakness of that approach is that no net connection = no Alexa. So, I also have some lights and a radio on semi-randomising standalone switches.
Note - I said last post that I didn’t recommend what I do as necessarily suitable for others. In part, that was about the privacy compromise, and in part it was because of how I go about it. One, but by no means the only, aspect of that is VLANs, MAC-filtering and two internet connections keeping smart home devices OFF my fairly carefully secured primary network. It also gives me redundancy if my main net connection goes down, and if I’m away and not using the primary network, it gives redundancy to the security aspects.
But how far to go? That is the question. Redundancy on net connections is one thing, but none of it helps if household power goes down, and putting in generators to stop risk that is, for me, way overkill.
The whole game is, in my view, a bit like backing up your computer - it’s a balance between cost and convenience, versus degree of protection. I know if I don’t take it reasonably seriously it’ll bite me in the butt, and the question is when, not if. But at the same time, I’m not wanting to go overboard about it.
CoffeePhilE As you state about loosing power. I live in a New build so Electric and Gas isolation is outside, very easy to cut the power off by any unwelcoming visitors. So just another thing to take into account on what you instal.
LMSC I like Eufy because you can keep it all local. Yes, there are downsides, but no recording to a cloud that needs a monthly subscription.
I only use the onboard SD card at the moment 2 internal (one in shed, one in kitchen) and one floodlight in garden. Will get a NAS at some point and record to that.
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CoffeePhilE You have driven home some valid points; local vs internet based access is a trade-off, which we can minimise the risk by going the VPN route for an example. Similarly, I agree with the VLAN for IoT devices coupled, MAC access control, realising RAID 1 isn’t a back up, keeping a back up copies, etc are sensible approaches.
Meldrew Nothing can be done, if they do that. A BackUPS to safely shut down the systems - NAS, firewall, locally managed hardware for smart devices, etc is a good strategy.
PortafilterProcrastinator Eufy appears popular. We also want to have a flexibility to connect it HomeKit. Some of their external devices can’t connect even with bridge. You don’t to offload your CCTV on cloud.
Really, appreciate every one chipping in. It is an interesting thread for anyone looking into this space. Perhaps, Dave might make it a sticky thread so that people can find it easily.
LMSC Really, appreciate every one chipping in. It is an interesting thread for anyone looking into this space. Perhaps, Dave might make it a sticky thread so that people can find it easily.
Every time I do a sticky it ends up permanently at the top of the discussion main landing thread….I’ve actually been unstickying thread s for a while when ages ago I logged in with my test account and saw 20 stickies on the landing page, when I thought they would only be in the area I put them in.
Unfortunately all the flarum users seem to be happy with the way it works and don’t see why a forum would need area specific stickies…
It’s really any stored data about an individual, which is why I store the minimum. There are all sorts of happy birthday add-ons to things and I hate those, can you imagine it announces on an open forum that it’s your Birthday…you post somewhere forgetfully your true age on the forum and bingo, they got your exact date of birth. Assuming you input your birthday correctly in the first place.
https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/d/179-what-information-do-we-hold-about-you
DavecUK Exactly. That’s why social medias can be very unsettling. It scary how much some platforms collect; some of them collect every thing, which they could lay their hands on. The only thing I have is WhatsApp to connect with our large family members who are far away from here. We would move to something like Signal, but our family won’t. 😊
LMSC It scary how much some platforms collect; some of them collect every thing, which they could lay their hands on.
Information is money, the more they have the more they can make from you. e.g. On many sites they use tracking cookies, so they can present adverts of more “interest” to you….
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Finally, after weeks of a struggle to find a mutually convenient date, a smart home consultant visited me. We looked around the house and had a detailed conversation.
We discussed enabling smart light switches, radiators, media and garden irrigation under the hood. Pending a visit to his place to see how they all work using a dedicated system, I had two pointed questions. which are critical for us.
1: Convenience for my family without worrying about coding, configurations, etc should anything go wrong - if I am not going to be around. The consultant agreed this is critical and always stresses this point to his clients.
2: What if the company and the brain of the stand alone system go belly up? We need spares , just in case. This isn’t a plan B. It all depends on how quickly one can swap, and bring the whole thing up. The proprietary systems will have this potential single point of failure, while the distributed platforms provide an alternative.
Either case, until an alternative is found and become fully functional, we are staring at living in primitive age because these systems, to the best of my understanding, won’t allow a manual operation as a back up. This was indicated by one consultant and the consultant today confirmed this risk.
We discussed this challenge in detail. Assuming, every switch has a neutral, we are looking at parallel connections, one overriding the other. This route will be very expensive.
I plan to visit the consultant’s office some time going forward. Ideally, I would like to take my wife to give her a first-hand experience of what is being planned. This visit may have to wait as we are aiming to sort out changing the windows and doors by this summer. We will have a lot of guests in summer, which is going to make it harder to make any progress. A recent family tragedy only makes it worse.
A dedicated system like Laxone will be neat but will have a plan B risk, which we can’t afford. We will also think of an alternative, which can provide plan B (manual ops).
LMSC while there is some risk here, I think you’re probably worrying a bit too much. While they could fail, they’re specified to last a long time. The most likely failure is a relay failure, so if you keep a relay free you could switch over in a few minutes (plus a bit of programming). Another option is you could buy a spare miniserver so you could switch in case of failure.
The final worst case is that you open up the cabinet, and instead of the wires going through relays you wire them into some switches as a temporary measure.
It’s easy to worry as we base our perception on cheap consumer electronics that is designed to fail after a year or two, but items like modern cars very rarely have electrical issues, as they’re designed to last. Loxone is in that camp.
