I have no objection to putting some smart devices on internet access, and some (like Alexa) won’t work without internet access. This, I grant, is a trade-off between security/privacy on the one hand, and veratility and convenience on the other. I’m prepared to give up a bit of security/privacy for that functionality. So, given that I use them for internet radio, it’s hard to avoid having them on the ’net. I have no problems with certain light switches, too. Anythng with a camera, or security implications, not a chance.

I have some IFTTT-type routines for my absence, controlling lights and scheduled noises, like radio BUT …. one weakness of that approach is that no net connection = no Alexa. So, I also have some lights and a radio on semi-randomising standalone switches.

Note - I said last post that I didn’t recommend what I do as necessarily suitable for others. In part, that was about the privacy compromise, and in part it was because of how I go about it. One, but by no means the only, aspect of that is VLANs, MAC-filtering and two internet connections keeping smart home devices OFF my fairly carefully secured primary network. It also gives me redundancy if my main net connection goes down, and if I’m away and not using the primary network, it gives redundancy to the security aspects.

But how far to go? That is the question. Redundancy on net connections is one thing, but none of it helps if household power goes down, and putting in generators to stop risk that is, for me, way overkill.

The whole game is, in my view, a bit like backing up your computer - it’s a balance between cost and convenience, versus degree of protection. I know if I don’t take it reasonably seriously it’ll bite me in the butt, and the question is when, not if. But at the same time, I’m not wanting to go overboard about it.

    CoffeePhilE As you state about loosing power. I live in a New build so Electric and Gas isolation is outside, very easy to cut the power off by any unwelcoming visitors. So just another thing to take into account on what you instal.

    • LMSC replied to this.

        DavecUK while this sounds reasonable I’m not sure how true it is. It’s pretty common that burglars just ring the doorbell and makeup some story if you answer to see if you’re in.

          LMSC I like Eufy because you can keep it all local. Yes, there are downsides, but no recording to a cloud that needs a monthly subscription.

          I only use the onboard SD card at the moment 2 internal (one in shed, one in kitchen) and one floodlight in garden. Will get a NAS at some point and record to that.

          • LMSC replied to this.

              CoffeePhilE You have driven home some valid points; local vs internet based access is a trade-off, which we can minimise the risk by going the VPN route for an example. Similarly, I agree with the VLAN for IoT devices coupled, MAC access control, realising RAID 1 isn’t a back up, keeping a back up copies, etc are sensible approaches.

              Meldrew Nothing can be done, if they do that. A BackUPS to safely shut down the systems - NAS, firewall, locally managed hardware for smart devices, etc is a good strategy.

              PortafilterProcrastinator Eufy appears popular. We also want to have a flexibility to connect it HomeKit. Some of their external devices can’t connect even with bridge. You don’t to offload your CCTV on cloud.

              Really, appreciate every one chipping in. It is an interesting thread for anyone looking into this space. Perhaps, Dave might make it a sticky thread so that people can find it easily.

                      LMSC Really, appreciate every one chipping in. It is an interesting thread for anyone looking into this space. Perhaps, Dave might make it a sticky thread so that people can find it easily.

                      Every time I do a sticky it ends up permanently at the top of the discussion main landing thread….I’ve actually been unstickying thread s for a while when ages ago I logged in with my test account and saw 20 stickies on the landing page, when I thought they would only be in the area I put them in.

                      Unfortunately all the flarum users seem to be happy with the way it works and don’t see why a forum would need area specific stickies…

                      Contact me

                        A good friend of forwarded this today! It could happen to any of us as hackers could hit us hard in any shape and form. This underscores the importance of protecting the personal emails.

                          LMSC A good friend of forwarded this today! It could happen to any of us as hackers could hit us hard in any shape and form. This underscores the importance of protecting the personal emails.

                          It’s really any stored data about an individual, which is why I store the minimum. There are all sorts of happy birthday add-ons to things and I hate those, can you imagine it announces on an open forum that it’s your Birthday…you post somewhere forgetfully your true age on the forum and bingo, they got your exact date of birth. Assuming you input your birthday correctly in the first place.

                          https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/d/179-what-information-do-we-hold-about-you

                          Contact me

                          • LMSC replied to this.

                              DavecUK Exactly. That’s why social medias can be very unsettling. It scary how much some platforms collect; some of them collect every thing, which they could lay their hands on. The only thing I have is WhatsApp to connect with our large family members who are far away from here. We would move to something like Signal, but our family won’t. 😊

                                  LMSC It scary how much some platforms collect; some of them collect every thing, which they could lay their hands on.

                                  Information is money, the more they have the more they can make from you. e.g. On many sites they use tracking cookies, so they can present adverts of more “interest” to you….

                                  Contact me

                                    19 days later

                                    Finally, after weeks of a struggle to find a mutually convenient date, a smart home consultant visited me. We looked around the house and had a detailed conversation.

                                    We discussed enabling smart light switches, radiators, media and garden irrigation under the hood. Pending a visit to his place to see how they all work using a dedicated system, I had two pointed questions. which are critical for us.

                                    1: Convenience for my family without worrying about coding, configurations, etc should anything go wrong - if I am not going to be around. The consultant agreed this is critical and always stresses this point to his clients.

                                    2: What if the company and the brain of the stand alone system go belly up? We need spares , just in case. This isn’t a plan B. It all depends on how quickly one can swap, and bring the whole thing up. The proprietary systems will have this potential single point of failure, while the distributed platforms provide an alternative.

                                    Either case, until an alternative is found and become fully functional, we are staring at living in primitive age because these systems, to the best of my understanding, won’t allow a manual operation as a back up. This was indicated by one consultant and the consultant today confirmed this risk.

                                    We discussed this challenge in detail. Assuming, every switch has a neutral, we are looking at parallel connections, one overriding the other. This route will be very expensive.

                                    I plan to visit the consultant’s office some time going forward. Ideally, I would like to take my wife to give her a first-hand experience of what is being planned. This visit may have to wait as we are aiming to sort out changing the windows and doors by this summer. We will have a lot of guests in summer, which is going to make it harder to make any progress. A recent family tragedy only makes it worse.

                                    A dedicated system like Laxone will be neat but will have a plan B risk, which we can’t afford. We will also think of an alternative, which can provide plan B (manual ops).

                                      LMSC while there is some risk here, I think you’re probably worrying a bit too much. While they could fail, they’re specified to last a long time. The most likely failure is a relay failure, so if you keep a relay free you could switch over in a few minutes (plus a bit of programming). Another option is you could buy a spare miniserver so you could switch in case of failure.

                                      The final worst case is that you open up the cabinet, and instead of the wires going through relays you wire them into some switches as a temporary measure.

                                      It’s easy to worry as we base our perception on cheap consumer electronics that is designed to fail after a year or two, but items like modern cars very rarely have electrical issues, as they’re designed to last. Loxone is in that camp.

                                      • LMSC replied to this.

                                          You just need to get it setup with assisted living in mind 😀. Motion sensors in each room and it’ll turn the lights on and off for you, plus call for help if you don’t move for a certain period.

                                            hornbyben It’s easy to worry as we base our perception on cheap consumer electronics that is designed to fail after a year or two, but items like modern cars very rarely have electrical issues, as they’re designed to last. Loxone is in that camp.

                                            Sure! I do agree I am overthinking a bit. Although, these could last a life time, prevention and planning for the unexpected are critical. Risk analysis and solutions to address a single point of failure are what I do in my work ! 😊

                                                LMSC fair enough. At the end of the day, like most things there’s no right answer, only the compromises that best suit you. These systems aren’t cheap.

                                                I just didn’t want to see you with candles as your lighting solution 🤣.

                                                • LMSC replied to this.

                                                    hornbyben I just didn’t want to see you with candles as your lighting solution

                                                    Sure. No body wants to ! 😅

                                                    That would exactly be my concern, should these pack eventually and there is no recourse to an instant alternative, which will always be manual switches.

                                                    Covid has made our live so fluid and anything can happen to anyone. We have lost some close friends and family members, and some in 30s and 40s even. I am an old man, should I pack, I don’t want to think I don’t care. I want to ensure everything will work as normal as before the switch, if required.

                                                    I am reading a lot on Laxone and heard only great things.

                                                    Imagine a failure in winter. My family will be unsettled and furious and so I will be. Haven’t told my wife the cost yet 😂

                                                    I need to do some serious reading and thinking. We will call an electrician first under a pretext of a routine inspection, which is over due anyway.

                                                    I will post.

                                                        LMSC sorry to hear about your losses. This has definitely been a fluid time.

                                                        My wife can use the system no problem, but if anything ever happened to me then I’m sure she’d need to take out the support option from Rob. Currently I tend to do all my own maintenance and updates.

                                                        If you want the benefits of a smart home then I don’t think you can get away from the centralised model really, and this is certainly the approach of choice for the professional systems. The distributed model still tends to communicate back a single source (usually cloud), and I think is really because it makes selling them easier (think Hue light bulbs etc). I’m not sure which approach ends up cheaper in the long term though. I seem to recall Loxone saying they designed for an 80 year life. I’d be surprised if the consumer stuff is designed for more than a couple of years average failure rate.

                                                            My wife has told me if I ever die then she’s getting an electrician in to rip it all out 😂

                                                            However we can at least use the light switches for manual control. and if one ever dies and doesn’t allow control, it’s a 5 min job for me to remove it.