Taste Differences Between Varia VS3 Gen 2 Burr Options ?

JHCCoffee

I just ordered a Varia VS3 Gen 2, with Supernova burr. I am thinking about ordering an additional burr and am trying to decide which, if any.

The Varia will be an extended stay and/or automotive travel grinder for me, which will supplement my IZpresso JMax (my short stay/air travel grinder) and my Niche Zero, which is my daily driver. The Varia will only see occasional use at home, unless I prefer the taste from its burrs, relative to my Niche Zero. Fyi, I tend to drink medium to medium dark decaf. Ie Full City to Full City+. But if these burrs improve the taste of medium roasts (ie City to City+), that would be a plus.

I am looking into one of the following burrs:

- Supernova (stock burrs)

- Hypernova

- Hypernova Ultra

Does anyone have experience with these burrs? Especially with the above roasts?

If so, please describe the tastes that you are experiencing: body, strength, flavour, seperation.

What types of beans does each burr favour?

So, if you have experiences with these burrs, feel free to share them.

PS Tom Poland had some limited initial comments on the differences between the burrs. I’d like to learn more from Tom and others on these burrs.

PPS I read a fair bit about reliability issues in the earlier versions. Is anyone having issues with the Gen 2? I hope not, as my Varia is on the way.

JHCCoffee

I separately ordered the Hypernova, as the grinder comes with the Supernova burr. Best of both worlds. Done!

thetravdog

Hi there, I won a VS3 Gen2 from Instagram a while back. I ran the stock burrs for a short while but I then upgraded to the luminescent blue Hypernova burr set. I did on the advice of this youtube video (I won the grinder from him) and I agree that that burr set had a nice mix of body and clarity for espresso and I think would be the right use case for you, I think the ultra is more geared towards filter or light roast espresso where clarity is more important. I would say that my machine is the limiting factor though, I only have a bambino plus and looking to upgrade.

JHCCoffee

thetravdog I would say that my machine is the limiting factor though, I only have a bambino plus and looking to upgrade.

Thanks for the burr advice. Appreciated.

You’ve taken the right approach to focus on the grinder first.

My first grinder was a Baratza Sette 270. It was ok, but the work flow was not great and its plastic parts broke easily until the motor died. Then bought a Eureka Mignon and sold it within a month; solidly built but poorly designed, and I didn’t like the taste from the burr set. I then bought a Niche Zero, which is my daily driver.

I’d save up for a Niche Zero (there a numerous used ones available) or a Niche Duo, as a next step. And look into mods for your Bambino (dimmer mod, grouphead mod to brass, screen mod to IMS, pressure gauge mod, bottomless PTF, IMS basket) if you are handy or know someone who is. I had fully tricked out my Breville DuoPro and was (through those mods) was able to get pretty good espresso shots. I “temp surfed” to control temperature and used the dimmer to control flow.

Next step up on the espresso machine for me was a Lelit Elizabeth, but should have bought a Lelit Bianca. I now own a Decent.

thetravdog

JHCCoffee I really don’t see a niche as much of an upgrade on the Varia personally. I’d probably want to move to something flat burr and with more of a flat burr profile, probably DF64 or another 64mm option, I’ll see how the Varia goes with whatever I choose next.

I think I would go for an Elizabeth or similar next, I want that temp stability and steaming power. I agree with your point on the Bianca but the heat up is probably too slow and I’m not interested in flow profiling yet, but definitely want some pre infusion ability.

I also don’t love overly fruity/floral coffee, love more of those boozy naturals which usually don’t require too much tinkering but I still think I can get more taste out of with a more capable machine.

JHCCoffee

thetravdog I really don’t see a niche as much of an upgrade on the Varia personally. I’d probably want to move to something flat burr and with more of a flat burr profile, probably DF64 or another 64mm option

Understood. Its all about taste. Which means its about the burrs and how they are aligned within the grinder. Its best to buy a grinder with the burrs and alignment that are suited to the type of beans that you like and the taste notes that you prefer.

So..its all about the taste that you prefer, not what hyperbolic YouTube Influencers say is better or worse about a given grinder.

Except maybe a couple, like Dave, who is not a stereotypical “Influencer”, but understands grinder and espresso machine engineering through and through. And Tom Poland, who understands burrs as well as anyone I know. I trust both these guys implicitly.

Enjoy your Varia and please do share your taste experiences, as I hope to learn from you about what works and doesn’t work with that grinder.

For me, as I have my Niche Z as my daily driver and the Varia as my auto travel/extended stay grinder and my 1Zpresso JMax as my airtravel grinder, and my Decent for never ending play, I’m good for a while. Until the itch for a flat overcomes my financial prudence. Time to sell some stuff I don’t need!

MediumRoastSteam

JHCCoffee And Tom Poland, who understands burrs as well as anyone I know

Out of curiosity, why is that?

thetravdog

Agreed, it’s becoming increasingly hard to trust these types of creators. As much as they claim to be impartial I’m still very suspicious. I will say I don’t love my Varia. I think I like the cups I’m getting but as I said before, I want to upgrade my machine before I pass final judgement - I just don’t love using it daily. The grind adjustment collar still loves to move mid grind and as much as Varia tell me greasing the threads fixes it, I don’t think it’s true, I have greased them with every clean and I just think it’s an inherent issue. I just end up holding the collar whilst I grind. Given how slowly it grinds it’s a pain.

JHCCoffee

thetravdog will say I don’t love my Varia. I think I like the cups I’m getting but as I said before, I want to upgrade my machine before I pass final judgement - I just don’t love using it daily

Good to know. Fortunately I didn’t buy it as my daily driver, but rather as a grinder for use on automotive or extended stay trips. It’s relatively light, small and portable, so I guess I will just put up with the need to hold the dial to avoid grind settings drift. I will message Tom Poland and the manufacturer about this (Tom appears to have a connection to the manufacturer). Maybe there is a better fix, or atleast they can fix it for Gen 3.

JHCCoffee

MediumRoastSteam Out of curiosity, why is that?

I’m sure that there is alot of knowledge about burrs and alignment here on this forum. And granted I know few people involved in burr design. But he sure has taken an interest in testing multiple grinders and burrs, through his grinder lab. He’s been quite helpful.

MediumRoastSteam

JHCCoffee But he sure has taken an interest in testing multiple grinders and burrs, through his grinder lab. He’s been quite helpful.

but does taking an interest makes anyone knowledgeable? You could argue some influencers have many grinders (call it a grinder lab or not), tried a few of them, and have an interest… that doesn’t make them necessarily knowledgeable.

No disrespect to anyone here, but experience cannot be fast tracked, in my opinion.

thetravdog

JHCCoffee yeah it should fit that use case. I want to clarify that I still think it’s a great grinder for the money in terms of taste in the cup. It seems to be something to do with the torque when grinding through beans. With some beans it doesn’t happen, with some I’m moving a grind setting courser during an 18g grind. I’ve reached out to their support twice and each time, as per their instruction, I just cleaned the grinder, greased the threads and it would go away then come back a few weeks later. I didn’t pay for it, I won it, so I honestly am not interested in complaining. Going to clean it tomorrow actually so it’ll probably disappear again!

thetravdog

MediumRoastSteam I’m not sure what your point is here. It’s the internet, you can’t always trust what you watch/read. You just have to take a rounded view of most things and get some different opinions, but at the end of the day you have to live with your decision to buy something

MediumRoastSteam

thetravdog - yeah. Sorry. I’m digressing from the thread OP. My point was that there are quite a few people - influencers as an example - who have a relative short experience with coffee equipment. Yet, due to interest in the hobby and being able to have multiple equipment at their disposal by their own means or sponsored, are able to experience what most of us will never do, all in a very short period of time. This, in my opinion, does not fast track their knowledge and experience.

Anyway, I am digressing.

JHCCoffee

MediumRoastSteam My point was that there are quite a few people - influencers as an example - who have a relative short experience with coffee equipment. Yet, due to interest in the hobby and being able to have multiple equipment at their disposal by their own means or sponsored, are able to experience what most of us will never do, all in a very short period of time. This, in my opinion, does not fast track their knowledge and experience.

Good point! I guess that you have to take everyone’s opinions (and they all are opinions) in the right perspective.

Some Influencers have alot of experience but can be hyperbolic in their approach and also do not disclose their commercial backers. Tom has now become an “Influencer” and may not quite have quite as much experience as a couple of other very well known Influencers, but he will (I hope, as he said he would) disclose who his commercial backers are, including whether he is receiving compensation from manufacturers or retailers.

Then there are scientific experts (such as Professor Gagne) who are (I hope) less biased. And burr design engineers who (as they work for manufacturers) have obvious bias.

And then there is Dave , who provides straight forward engineering information and does not appear to demonstrate bias. Well he does have a soft spot for Lelit and Niche, though his work for them, which does I suppose create some bias, but his videos and web posting are quite factual and balanced.

At the end of the day you have to weigh all of this information and make a decision. My only concern is for those who are new to espresso and rely on reviews from Influencers who are not balanced in their reviews, or are biased because of their undeclared commercial backing.

Along with alot of hyperbole on various techniques (that often provide conflicting and/or overly complicated advice, sometimes walked back within a year) that must confuse so many people! I could go on and on about this topic.

Sorry to digress. Back to the OP.

chlorox

JHCCoffee
I have said this before and I will say it again - take everybody’s opinion on anything with caution and make up your own mind. Just because one is not a blogger or influencer who makes money off his internet content doesnt make him a disinterested unconflicted opinionator. This includes the opinions of you and i who may actually own the gear in quesiton…Nobody is totally trustworthy. At the least evne if an opinionator doesnt make any money from expressing his opinion, there is the motive of ego and social status and group identity to motivate him…Of course the level of distrust increases with the level of lack of candour aboit ones own biases (ans everyone has his own biases) or lack of transparency about industry input and influence and the terms on which they got the machine… this means just as it is unwise to uncritically accept the opinion of a non blogger or influencer, it is also unwise to dismiss the opinion of a blogger or influencer at face value…

JonWoo187

I gladly say to ignore any influencing and just figure things out for yourself. Nobody will have a clue as to what you might find great and who cares what works for someone else when it’s in their environment, using their equipment, their coffee of choice, etc.? For a grinder simply settle on one that has the features and efficient workflow you want/expect, has minimal retention/involvement as well as offering solid performance/consistency. No grinder ever made will be perfectly suited for everyone and every grinder made will have small tweaks to workaround.

The biggest factor by far and way too overlooked is the COFFEE being used. Burr type won’t give that much noticeable change, more of a placebo effect than anything else. Only real change I’ve found with different burr types is in texture and rarely much difference in taste. Of course taste is subjective regardless of the idiotic scientific spin some wanna put on it and with espresso variables change pretty much constantly and simply no exact way to pinpoint it.

For those that want ultimate control of what you consume definitely get into home roasting. It’s far more impressive to be able to manipulate precisely what a coffee is capable of than going the spending route on equipment that won’t ever come close to matching that variable. Yes this is now a bit off-topic, but the constant mention of this/that grinder being cutting edge whatever gets a bit repetitive and just leaves many at the point of reaching FOMOR (Fear Of Missing Out Retardism).

chlorox

JonWoo187
I believe you are right from my own. Limited experience. The quality of beans is paramount and we cna make too much of a deal on the grinder. For example I have tried a lagpm p64 and while it was very good I did not think it was necessarily obviously better in the cup than my df84 with ssp burrs - of course qualified by the fact that diff equipment and beans were used etc. Discerning and alert contentment is a good virtue to have when it comes to gear…