MediumRoastSteam from a purely practical and fair point of view, I’ve alway felt VAT was quite a regressive tax. I remember a time when it didn’t exist, now it does, it disproportionately affects the poor. It was originalky intended to be a luxury goods tax, and ended up contaminating almost every purchase. The higher ones income, the less of it is taxed at mostly 20%

I would have loved to have seen the top rate of VAT become 10%, with a view of removing VAT completely one day. It’s also a very simple change to administer. It would be a massive brake on inflation and very, very fair….assuming retailers don’t raise prices by the saving.

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      Well 2024 is election year is it not?

      I think they pretty much know they stand a good chance of not getting reelected, so this for me is a tide the time, get as much money in Thier pockets as they can and then run, let the next government have the problems.

      And if they do get back in well🤷

      I just cannot get my head around it though, in stead of stopping the mass profits these energy companies make, they cap it and pay the bill difference??? Why do that.

      The 1% have done very well out the budget.

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        DavecUK little less greed in the world

        Not even as a

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          Cuprajake they cap it and pay the bill difference??? Why do that.

          Because that way they privatise gains and socialise losses. You and I pay the bill, but bankers and executives get richer.

          Cuprajake The 1% have done very well out the budget.

          In relative terms to the rest of the population, yes, totally.

          However… it’s the 0.01% that have actually gained from it. Someone making £200k is going to pay ~£5000 less a year between income tax and NI. That’s probably less than the increase on their heating and petrol bill, never mind mortgage or food. Someone - like the average premier league footballer - making £3.5 million is going to be £210k better off. Neither of them needed the money.

                Cuprajake The problem is that the energy companies, the ones that get fossil fuels out of the ground can only be taxed on profits if they are based in the UK, and only on what they sell in the uk. E.g. if blob energy drills for oil in the Polders (Netherlands) and are based in the uk. If we start taxing them on oil they selling to the UK, they will not sell that oil into the UK (make profits in the UK), or going move out of the UK. I used to work for Amoco, and they didn’t pay tax on worldwide income. They only pay tax on oil extracted from the North sea, that was sold into the UK, and a fee for exploration rights lasting 10 years.

                All the sustainable green energy from windmills, tidal, sauna, I don’t see that being any cheaper and you would think that the energy there would be so, so cheap but it’s not?

                This is a crisis that has been 4 or 5 decades in the making, and successive governments of all types have done absolutely nothing about it. In fact if truth be told nothing really changes whatever government gets in.

                I thought VAT should be reduced and eventually removed. No government of any colour has ever wanted to do this, I always wonder why because it’s the most regressive tax there is!

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                    DavecUK I always wonder why because it’s the most regressive tax there is!

                    It’s also one of those that is most difficult to evade, escape and generally monkey about with on a grand scale, as most of the transactions including VAT are small, and the tax burden falls largely on the end consumer.

                    DavecUK All the sustainable green energy from windmills, tidal, sauna, I don’t see that being any cheaper and you would think that the energy there would be so, so cheap but it’s not?

                    Part of that is the completely screwed up way of setting wholesale prices, where every kWh is paid for at the marginal price of the most expensive source (i.e. at this moment, gas).

                          DavecUK Magic, innit?

                          As Colbert (finance minister to Louis XIV, the Sun King) was fond of saying: “the art of taxation is plucking the most feathers out of the goose with the minimum of hiss”, or something to that effect.

                            CoyoteOldMan Someone - like the average premier league footballer - making £3.5 million is going to be £210k better off. Neither of them needed the money.

                            This of course assumes they are paying tax through a system like PAYE, which none of them will be. The liklihood is they won’t ne any better off as they’re avoiding the tax through clever accountingin the first place

                              So logged on to octopus energy and they had lowered my DD

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                                Ovo is a bit checky here!

                                The DD remains unchanged. Once the DD payments are cleared, the monthly discount will be refunded shortly after that. This is done over 6 months.

                                Yeah, I’ve put mine back up to £180, and I’m £300 in credit atm

                                But heating was on last night at the house was 16.5degrees

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                                • LMSC replied to this.

                                  Cuprajake I don’t understand the in credit business. It never earns any interest; it’s a free run for these super rich companies in the name of building up for winter. It’s another rip off, IMO. Our account is in credit by about £635.

                                  Our house temp is about 17.5C. My 83 MIL feeling very cold. Think the heater will have to come up tomorrow, which is at least 5-6 weeks sooner. It is only Sep!

                                      LMSC it never earns any interest; it’s a free run for these super rich companies in the name of building up for winter

                                      If you want to bother to change DD payments twice a year or even more often, there is nothing to stop you doing it - or at least, I can change my DD whenever I want. When I was with PurePlanet (until it went belly up), they automatically set the payments to be 25% lower than average during the 6 “summer months”, and 25% higher during winter - this meant I was closer to zero net balance through the year.

                                      However, considering the best savings account are around 4% AER (but overdrafts are usually >35% APR), running an average credit of say £500 (+1000 in summer, 0 in winter) doesn’t lose me much in terms of interest, and it may just save me some overdraft charges (all I’d need is 11 days of overdraft on my monthly £500 energy bill, and I’m ‘net zero’ against the lost interest).

                                      As usual in these things, YMMV…

                                          CoyoteOldMan Of course, I am aware of those choices. It’s just the options the general pop may not be aware of. The natural or a logical thing, IMO, is charge for the actual. I am an Economist by training and understand risks and money by profession. One do not have to work like a credit card company, but they could charge the actuals. That’s my view anyway.

                                              LMSC They definitely could, particularly since they “insist” that you install smart meters or provide them with very regular readings… 😁

                                                Cuprajake

                                                i already lowered my DD 2 days ago from £150 to £100 and today i receved email from them saying they lowered it to £33. haha

                                                i think i will manually bring it up to £100 again. So £166 a month might just cover us.