Energy Prices

@“DavecUK”
I have the $ in my superannuation to pay for the panels and batteries plus a back up diesel generator (rural setting).
Every time I check, the money makes me more in my super than my power costs me from the grid.

Can I ask a really stupid question….as usual?

Since the introduction of solar specifically, I hear people talk about when installing any sort of heating system other than a gas boiler about payback etc and ‘ooh it costs so much you would never get your money back or it would take years’.

Maybe I’m just dumb (leave comments below) but over the tears (sorry years) whenever I have had a new boiler or heating system installed, not once has it crossed my mind about payback. I have to have heating so I go with what I can afford, trying to get the best value for my money knowing that if for example I go for a combi boiler, I will hopefully get a good ten years out of it before it needs replacing. It costs me what it costs. I never think about payback, so why would I think about that if installing solar or an air source heat pump? If that is the type of heating I go for and it costs 5, 8 or 15 grand it is what it is, and as long as it does its job and lasts long enough then great. The only return I expect is for it to work for a number of years

Or am I getting the wrong end of the stick and simply not understanding it right?…as usual.

I guess we dont “need” solar so there is always the comparison of cost of system against how much electric that same money could buy you over time.

I had mine installed 12 odd years back.. so the outlay was a lot more than today but it was balanced by the FIT tarif - so there was a lot of expense versus time to recover the money along with the “free” electric. Of course as the prices have rocketed then whatever amount of power I get is a bonus.. and it can help reduce the expenditure across the spring and summer months.. but come Winter I am as reliant as anyone else on the grid.

Pompeyexile Because the lifetime cost profile totally changes. Upfront capital costs are much higher with things like solar and heat pumps. The “payback” isn’t really about recovering your sunk costs because as you say there is a cost to any form of heating. But the promise of the expensive solutions like solar and heat pumps is cheaper running costs. So the “payback” calculation is really a cost of service calculation over the lifetime of the system. An artificial calculation might be

Gas Boiler - £2000 install plus £1500 a year bills and maintenance for 15 years - £24,500

Solar - £20,000 install plus £200 a year bills and maintenance for 15 years - £23,000

Cheers Gagaryn I knew someone could explain it to me.

whats the life span of solar panels and their battery? vs the lifespan of a boiler?

how quickly does a solar panel/heat pump become obsolete like a laptop or mobile phone?

i cant afford either, or have the space but its something id love to do, garden solar panels

@“Cuprajake”#p4066Depends who you ask! Modern panels from reputable companies generally come with a minimum 25 year warranty so depends how you are defining obsolete. Old laptops in general continue to work - it’s our expectations and uses cases which makes them obsolete. So although panels from a reputable supplier should still be supported in a couple of decades from now - the industry is likley to have changed - the panels and invertors in 2040 and beyond will likely be cheaper and more efficient.

sorry more how they degrade? do they loose the ability to charge as quick,

The panels will over time reduce their ability to capture the solar - i think mine will drop to 80% efficient after X years.

I am on my second invertor in 12 years - that was 1k to replace - then a cable went on a panel - which took out the entire string - took minutes to fix but over 1k in scaffolding costs….

If it had not been for the excellent FIT tariffs I would not have bothered back then.

There is so much incorrect information regarding solar PV in the last several posts that I wouldn’t know where to start to correct it 😂

I am sure I have used the wrong terminology along the way 😂

DavecUK Your cost was incredibly cheap for what you got…….

I know there is a trend here to to try and find the most expensive way to do things, but I’m old school so prefer to get a good deal when possible. ;-)

Doram That price is about what I’d estimate., and much more realistic than the £20k previously stated… The prices are at least half what they were 5 years ago

Warranty periods vary from manufacturers, but Solar Edge offer 12+ (sometimes 20) years on their inverters and 25 on optimisers. A replacement will be £400-1200 depending on model at current prices.

Panels usually out preform their spec sheet out of the box, my Perlight 295s have a measured max of about 309w. It therefore takes a few years before they degrade to their official wattage, and even then they won’t degrade that much. Manufactures usually guarantee 80% after 10 or 15 years, but it’s unlikely they will fall anywhere near that. A system I fitted for someone nearly 11 years ago was attacked by squirrels (add that to the list of downsides 😁). After repairing it, it was producing 3.9kw of power at its peak. It is a 4.1kw system on a 4kw Sunnyboy inverter. And, those panels have never been cleaned.

Another site I fitted last year, 5.8kw of panels but only a 3.68kw inverter, produced 790kwh in July last year, and has produced 330kwh so far this month. Winter reduces it, but to say you won’t get much at all is a bit of a leap.