It’s interesting because I’d guess (and this is a total guess) that the bigger money for small-medium sized roasters is in stocking local or nationwide cafes with a regular wholesale deal. I know one roaster that started this way. Through friends and connections they agreed to stock a handful of shops exclusively which allowed a level of security in starting the business.

However, as we’ve discussed at length, 99% of consumers probably don’t even know the coffee is good or bad, and likely to be an enormous improvement on the instant granules they drink at home.

Retail customers pay a higher price, but I’d still estimate that it makes up quite a small percentage of profits compared to wholesale which means the demand is actually coming from people who probably don’t know what good coffee is, rather than the other way round. Hence the perpetuality of mediocre coffee.

I guess what I’m saying is that in some ways, it’s more commercially viable to be mediocre than it is to be good.

Obviously there are roasters that are good either way, but I think the above might partly explain why there are so many that aren’t.

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Ikawa Roaster

Tasting notes are a product of cupping. That said, roasters may tweak the roast specifically for cupping and this may not necessarily transfer to the bulk roasts. I always take the cupping notes with a pinch of salt and focus mainly on the processing method and roast level. Then we come on to price and the old saying, ‘you get what you pay for’ which while not always the case when it comes to coffee purchases, I have found myself increasingly disappointed with coffee sold with hypse which doesn’t transfer to the cup. That said, I’ve paid a lot for some coffees that have also not hot the mark either. Few beans I’ve bought over the last twelve months have been stellar. However, two offerings from Darkwoods - El Placer Yellow and El Placer Purple have been exceptional.

Platypus I would be interested to know if all of the tech and programming of roasters is contributing to this and making roasters more complacent, after all if the graphs and numbers look good! Controversial I know!

I am sure it hasn’t helped…as once the process is computerised, the skill of watching and modifying is left to the person pressing the button, who may not be an experienced roaster. This exact thing happened with Hasbean back in the day.

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    Raja123 I recently had some of the Colombia - Jairo López from The Picky Chemist. Although it’s labelled “Roast degree: Espresso”, it measured at the top of the Agtron Specialty Scale on my refractometer (i.e. as light as it gets). Nonetheless, it easily yielded very high extraction yields (>25%) and matched the elaborate taste notes.

        dfk41 Taste will always be subjective and I personally don’t care what the self-entitled super tasters claim to taste, smell, etc. Not being satisfied with commercial roasted coffee is all the more reason to roast it yourself. Been at it 8 yrs now and never plan to buy roasted coffee again, especially for the garbage that is more about packaging, monthly subscription commitment, etc. Actually glad to see more coffee related businesses close shop as that gives more green to the rest of us that can really make it shine.

            mathof2 yes, it’s usually very light but extracts well in a variety of ways. I’ve been ordering from TPC for some time now. Never lets me down.

              HarveyMushman I honestly think some roasters just don’t really know what they’re doing.

              I wouldn’t be surprised if roasters don’t cup after they roast. Maybe a sample roast tasted one way but six months later when the full shipment of greens have arrived, they just roast and bag them up for retail.

              I read on HB someone saw roasters publishing tasting notes that were exactly the same as what the green importer provided for the same coffee.

                  Beware the elephant in the corner, i.e. hype.

                  Whilst tasting notes can be prone to hyperbole - there have been important improvements in bean processing and roasting. Not that long ago, SCAEE turned its nose up at naturally processed beans arguing the process tainted what the bean had to offer. It was true that, in order to enjoy fruit forward notes, you had to put up with some level of mustiness. Now we have hybrid processing methods such as carbonic maceration, honey etc which improve the quality of the natural process in spades. Roasting has benefitted from the incorporation of computer control which, above all, should ensure consistency batch to batch. So, overall, the quality of the coffee we buy these days has improved but expecting the wow factor from cheaper priced beans is never going to happen no matter what the roaster puts on the bag in terms of tasting notes.

                  Enjoying Square Mile, Rwanda, Sholi washed Bourbon - not found the raspberry note (though there is a slightly tart acidity), but some honey. Not had many decent Rwandans in the last couple of years (used to be my favourite origin), so this is a bit like a ‘blast from the past’ and one of the lightest roasts I have seen from Square Mile for a long time.

                  All brewed as pourover, avg subjective liking score 7.5/9.0.

                  dfk41 Possibly if I get the urge to explain the form/function, bwhaha. Just like to encourage others to give home roasting a go if possible as it’s very rewarding and can indeed save $ in the process regardless of the (negative) spin some try putting on it.

                      JonWoo187 any links to any videos that might tempt us maybe??

                      Ade Smith. ACS Evo Leva v2. Kafatek Flat max 2, ssw 2024. Mazzer Philos, Craig Lyn HG-1 prime., WW key mk1.

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                        Roasting at home:

                        No way that’s going to make it, but I backed it anyway (maybe cos I know it won’t go through, heh).

                        If by some miracle it makes the goal, I’ll be churning away while I feast my eyes on YouTube videos.

                        Tal Tal I never go for more than 2,5 minutes and if the taste is good why change the parameters? Don’t think there are universal recipes working well with all the coffees but if I were you I wouldn’t change the grind…

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