Areas for improvement in my coffee

Dan Just my opinion, but from your description of the kit you own, I think there are other things to spend your hard earned on! Let us just say that beans are the root of your problem. Buying a roaster will take many moons of frustration before you start to get anywhere. If you spent your time (if you are convinced that beans are the issue) searching for a roasted bean supplier that suits your taste requirements then you are way ahead in the game. There is a limit to as to how good a coffee you can produce on a sage barista Pro and if you want to go to the next level, perhaps you could think about upgrading that

Dan I used to roast on a modded Gene Cafe years ago. Roasting then was not what it is now! I gave up because I quickly realised that I enjoyed the roasting proccess (although my neighbours not so much!) but the end result in the cup was never great. Now that is not to say others might have far better skill sets that I!

My comment on your machine……if you have a 5 litre bottle, then no matter how much you want, you can only fit 5 litres in. If you need to store 8 litres then you need a larger bottle. I have had several Sage machines (probably 6 or 7) over the years. The Dual Boiler is a very capable machine with a large hidden menu system allowing you to do many interesting things with temperature and pre infusion pressure. But……they do not have a reputation for longevity unfortunately. You may be able to find one on special or with an extended warranty.

The Sage machines comply with EY legislation meaning they auto switch off after a certain period of time. That is not always a good thing in the coffee world as after 20 minutes many machines are not yet at temperature. Anyway, sorry for the lecture!

before i spent a penny i would go buy some good beans from a respected roaster, something like tim wendlebow - try them, see if theres a big difference in what you are making yourself,

then and only then would i look to change things, fwiw temperature control is key with coffee, id make sure your machine can do that, before looking at beans, if you want validation to buy a new roaster i give you my backing haha

Dan Why don’t you buy a few kilos of greens, then select a few folks to receive 250 gms each, then let them tell you how good your roasting is! I quite agree that good quality beans is the way to go, but below £20 per kg you are not in the arena of good quality beans. To make consistently good coffee you need to have consistent temperature, grinding, tamping and beans. You can buy SCA beans graded at whatever you like, but it does not mean that either yourself or the roaster that you buy them from are able to replicate the profile or outcome!

Dan I guess it comes down to perception as to how you define good beans.

Sorry to be a downer on your roaster quest but I agree with Jake. If you can get everything you want in the cup with your current set up by switching to well-roasted beans, then a new roaster is the key to fixing you current problem. If you can’t, a new roaster won’t fix the more fundamental issues with your set up.

I’m with Dave on getting a new espresso machine first, then maybe a new grinder, then switching up the roaster.

Crap coffee on a kees van der westen is still crap coffee

Since when ha c r a p been a swear word 🤣

Cuprajake

Cuprajake c.rap coffee on a kees van der westen is still c.rap coffee

Completely agree. It’s not something I really realised until I’d been making coffee at home for a while, but you need to have a good machine, grinder and source of beans before everything consistently falls into place. I think that may be why it can be so frustrating when people are just starting. Not to say you can’t make good coffee on more entry-level equipment, but doing it repeatably it hard.

Putting it nicely, everything has its limit. You have probably reached the limit on your current roaster, and are therefore quite correct in the need to upgrade. Equally, the same applies to all other elements in your coffee kit. If you upgrade your roaster first, and in time produce stellar beans, your existing kit still limits you as to what you can produce. I would personally change your grinder first. There is plenty of choice sub £1000 and that grinder will take your forward for many a year. Then I would upgrade your machine in the same way…….then the roaster. It is highly unlikely in my humble, that you will be able to produce better beans than a GOOD roaster, so why not just find a roaster you enjoy and drink their offerings meanwhile………..or of course you can just scratch your itch

@Dan Yes, I concur with all that a machine upgrade may help, as it will allow you (depending upon the machine) to control key variables throughout the shot. And learn their impacts on taste.

You need to be able to control temperature and ideally flow (through pressure), during the pre-infusion, commencement, full flow and tail of the shot. And the time duration of each phase.

A lever machine will allow you to do the above manually, in combination with an accurate scale with timer. An automated machine (like a Lelit Elisabeth) will allow you to control all but flow. A Lelit Bianca adds flow control. My Decent DE1 allows complete control of all.

If you have the budget for a Lelit E, I would strongly recommend that you stretch to buy a Lelit Bianca, to get flow control and generally better machine quality.

Fyi, while well designed, the Lelit E definitely has some parts design flaws, such as its OPV and its steam knob and valve. You get what you pay for.

PS I recall reading that larger flat burr grinders (in the 78 to 83 mm range) can be more inconsistent than 64mm burr grinders. Perhaps others can shed light on this.