Hello. I’ve come from ‘the other forum’. I’ve been away for a bit and didn’t realise how much things have changed. I think I missed the bit where everyone left. Anyway. I sold my LR and Niche Zero a while back to get some money in the bank while my house was on the market and to not have to move them. I’m currently using a Melitta bean to cup but it’s simply not cutting it - as expected. I like the Niche so was thinking of trying the Duo and pairing it with a Cinquantotto. Having read more about the Rocket, I might swerve it now. I’ve read quite a bit about the Lelit Bianca and it seems well reviewed, although you never really know how honest they are. I have a suspicious mind. In summary, I’m now looking at a Bianca and a DF83 V2. I’m looking for fairly low maintenance and cleaning, definitely dual boiler and I like single dosing. I only make a couple of coffees a day most days and tend towards the lighter roasts. in addition, I wouldn’t mind some kind of puck prep/distribution tools. Your thoughts and suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Bianca V3 is a cracking machine and more than you will ever need I'd say duo over df83

@"Seand"#p70780 Agree on the Bianca. If you are just going to use the grinder for espresso, then buy a Duo with one burr set and save a few bob. I think most on here anyway, will agree it is better than the DF

Yeah had a Bianca V2 and agree it’s a great machine. E61 group will require some maintenance (lubrication after detergent rinses) but I had a year of trouble free ownership!

That’s really interesting about the grinder. Thanks for the replies. I may be fickle and easily-led, but I suspect that’s sealed it.

If you can stump up. Bit more the new mazzer philos gets rave reviews but that's closer to a grand

@"Seand"#p70780 I was looking at exactly the same position a few months ago. I was about to pull the trigger on a Bianca but other than the price, I kept seeing a lot of issues with them and not being technically minded and struggling to get my last dual boiler serviced I went in a different direction. You definitely get a lot for your money with a Bianca but there's also a lot to go wrong.

Not seen many with faults? What went wrong?

> @"Cuprajake"#p70816 Not seen many with faults? What went wrong? I remember now I had a vacuum valve go on mine after about 6 months. To be fair though I've had similar 'minor' issues with every machine I've ever had except the LM. And even then it's probably luck more than anything else. I've come to accept that niggles like OPV/safety valve/temp probe niggles are just part of espresso machine ownership.

@"HarveyMushman"#p70822 - agree. I had a Profitec 700 back in the day. Gicar box had to be replaced 10 months after purchase, from new. I’ve been lucky with the Elizabeth. So far (touch wood) nothing, and that’s after 4 years. I had La Pavoni before, anti-vac valve started hissing and got bored of tapping it with a wooden spoon - the recommended solution. Bought a new one, retrofitted and… same rubbish happens… 🤦♂️ @"delta76"#1185 said his Bianca had to have the heating element and “power box” (assuming it’s he gicar box) replaced after 1 year of ownership. But overall, you don’t see many fault reports with Biancas. Also had a Gaggia Classic which never gave me any problems for 3 years. It’s still going strong 10 years later in Sydney.

Nearly decided on a new set up

delta76

Yeah, everything has a failure rate. I was in a small % of unlucky owners I think. but it was all covered by warranty, what was lost was time out of commission and my personal time for packaging/unpackaging. But that could happen to any machine you buy (maybe except for LM as I heard their warranty policies mean a technician will come to your house to fix it, don’t know if that’s true always)
If I have to buy a new espresso machine today with ₂₀₀₀ EUR budget, Bianca is definitely top of the short list.

DavecUK

delta76 If I have to buy a new espresso machine today with 2000 EUR budget, Bianca is definitely top of the short list.

The Bianca is no more, or less unreliable than other Dual boiler machines. The V3 of course with the low and high flow system, has much more to go wrong, especially if bad water is used, and I don’t just mean limescale. On the prototype V3 I had about 18 months before launch, Mauro contacted me and said they had found faults with the solenoid system having problems, so in production machines, they changed that and sent me a complete bolt in system. However, my water is so clean (not just low limescale), that mine never had a problem, so the replacement parts still sit in a box.

delta76

DavecUK just to be clear, I meant for features for price. I did not mean it is more reliable than other machines.
Can you elaborate on the “bad water” and low & high flow system? What’s “bad water” and what could it cause (more) troubles to Bianca (compared to other machines)

MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK if bad water is used, and I don’t just mean limescale

delta76 What’s “bad water”

I’m also curious about this. What else could cause problems?

dang2484

I’m sure compared to other machines it’s probably not dissimilar in ‘failure rate’, I just noticed a lot of tech requests from owners on forums etc only after a few months and haven’t really seen that compared to ECM, Rocket or Profitec machines.

Lelit have crammed a lot in for the price point, but when you’re spending 2 grand for essentially some hot liquid I wanted a little more reassurance in my purchase.

MediumRoastSteam

dang2484 but when you’re spending 2 grand for essentially some hot liquid I wanted a little more reassurance in my purchase.

Good luck. Don’t buy Profitec/ECM then. My failed at 10 months old.

Bottom line… it happens. And that’s the point of a warranty.

delta76

dang2484 when you come to a specific brand forum, you only see people come there to ask/complain about their problems, so the essential “feeling” is overwhelming by the errors. but you will see same with other brands/machines. (With the caveat that Bianca is very popular due to its performance/price so the total number of errors reported will be higher, but I expect the rate to be roughly the same)
the only advice I can give, regardless of the machine you pick, is to buy from a reputable seller who is true to their words. and learn how to fix small things. Espresso machines work with very hot water and/or high pressure so things like valves will eventually fail. they should be fairly easy to fix if you know how. if you want to keep your machine for a very long, long time, that is

DavecUK

MediumRoastSteam I’m also curious about this. What else could cause problems?

Water that’s low in limescale but can leave other residues.

For me RO water is not only clean, but for the 2+ decades I have been drinking it, greatly reduced my exposure to microplastics, chemicals, hormones and pesticides.

dang2484

MediumRoastSteam that’s a shame, and sounds like a pain after 10mths.

I had a Bezzera Duo for 5yrs and never had an issue so reliability is achievable without breaking the bank. I think when you’re paying thousands for a hot water machine reliability should be as standard!

MediumRoastSteam

dang2484 - Yes… But remember that the machine failure is at the mercy of the weakest component in that machine, and those are sometimes outsourced. If there’s a bad batch that has been used (as an example, if I remember correctly there was a bad batch of temp sensors during the pandemic) then it’s just fact of life, no matter what you buy. Take cars for example… Buy German. Built to last. Well engineered - Not in my experience. :-)

MediumRoastSteam

dang2484 think when you’re paying thousands for a hot water machine reliability should be as standard!

https://www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/la-marzocco-linea-micra-boiling-brew-water-t95178.html#p1003539

https://www.home-barista.com/repairs/linea-mini-pump-kicking-in-for-second-or-two-every-hour-or-so-t95414.html#p1003583

LM Linea Micra and Mini. More expensive than most E61 machines. LM is a “premium” brand. Yet… there are failures.

MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK - understood. But how does these other contaminants, or elements, can adversely affect the high/low flow valve of the prototype Bianca you had?

Seand

It’s my birthday today… I’ve just pulled the trigger on a Bianca and Duo. Will also order an Acaia and nice jug. Any advice on distribution tools? I’ve seen some mad ones lately.

FedEx tracking for delivery tomorrow received within the hour. Nice work.

DavecUK

Seand It’s my birthday today… I’ve just pulled the trigger on a Bianca and Duo. Will also order an Acaia and nice jug. Any advice on distribution tools? I’ve seen some mad ones lately.

Happy birthday, I would wait as far as other accessories go and see how you get on. Then if you find you need something, drop hints at Christmas.

delta76

Seand unless if you are sure you need Acaia (for whatever reason). it is great but also very expensive/overkill. A Timemore black mirror works well enough (accuracy/responsiveness) for a fraction of price
A simple WDT should do the job well. I have a blind shaker from 3MH-BOMBER which is a copy cat of Weber, which works well given it’s around $20 buying from Aliexpress.
My tip is that refrain from buying too many accessories. A scale and a WDT are two things that I’d consider essential. Nice to have are coffee brush( is included with Duo I think), a blower, puck screen. Buy quality but not luxury thing (say, Weber), unless it’s your thing.

And Happy birthday!

dang2484

Seand happy birthday, I’m sure you won’t be disappointed in your choices and can crack out some great espresso 😉

I agree on the tools, not much is needed other than a wdt tool. I did get a 3bomber palm tamper which makes tamper a lot more consistent but I’m sure there’s cheaper versions! I’ve got a cheap scales from amazon that works fine and is still going!

https://bellabarista.co.uk/products/mhw-3bomber-slow-rebound-palm-tamper-adjustable-depth-58-35mm?variant=42618083410093&currency=GBP&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjww5u2BhDeARIsALBuLnPrOfIeSo88F34PzFErToJcRvbaDUQK4Retow1WPpH5IQl_mS-3tI8aAhnWEALw_wcB

Tal

Lovely. I’d like a Bianca, it’s certainly on my radar as a 40th present to myself. Got the duo already and it’s brilliant, very repeatable results from it.

As above. Tamper, WDT tool, scales and milk jug are the bare essentials. I’ve been using cheap WDT tools and they all do a decent job.

Have fun!

delta76

MediumRoastSteam the sooner someone accepts everything can fail, and will likely fail during their ownership, the happier they will be (or at least, less unhappy stuck in a dilemma) 😀
Sure we should avoid notoriously bad machines with a reputation of unreliable, but well, it’s not that different amongst the rest

MediumRoastSteam

delta76 - I think the whole dilemma is not about failure rate, but about warranty and repairability.

Buy a machine with standard parts and a reputable brand and you are likely to be OK. If something fails, hopefully you can contact the distribution network, obtain spares and fix the machine relatively effortlessly and inexpensively. That’s why I chose the Lelit Elizabeth over the Sage Dual boiler.

dfk41

I think that a lot of these ‘failures’ are not the machine but of parts bought in. My Evo ‘failed’ after 8 months….actually it was the pstat and nothing to do with the design of the machine, but they all count!

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