Hello. I’ve come from ‘the other forum’. I’ve been away for a bit and didn’t realise how much things have changed. I think I missed the bit where everyone left. Anyway. I sold my LR and Niche Zero a while back to get some money in the bank while my house was on the market and to not have to move them. I’m currently using a Melitta bean to cup but it’s simply not cutting it - as expected. I like the Niche so was thinking of trying the Duo and pairing it with a Cinquantotto. Having read more about the Rocket, I might swerve it now. I’ve read quite a bit about the Lelit Bianca and it seems well reviewed, although you never really know how honest they are. I have a suspicious mind. In summary, I’m now looking at a Bianca and a DF83 V2. I’m looking for fairly low maintenance and cleaning, definitely dual boiler and I like single dosing. I only make a couple of coffees a day most days and tend towards the lighter roasts. in addition, I wouldn’t mind some kind of puck prep/distribution tools. Your thoughts and suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Bianca V3 is a cracking machine and more than you will ever need I'd say duo over df83

@"Seand"#p70780 Agree on the Bianca. If you are just going to use the grinder for espresso, then buy a Duo with one burr set and save a few bob. I think most on here anyway, will agree it is better than the DF

Yeah had a Bianca V2 and agree it’s a great machine. E61 group will require some maintenance (lubrication after detergent rinses) but I had a year of trouble free ownership!

That’s really interesting about the grinder. Thanks for the replies. I may be fickle and easily-led, but I suspect that’s sealed it.

If you can stump up. Bit more the new mazzer philos gets rave reviews but that's closer to a grand

@"Seand"#p70780 I was looking at exactly the same position a few months ago. I was about to pull the trigger on a Bianca but other than the price, I kept seeing a lot of issues with them and not being technically minded and struggling to get my last dual boiler serviced I went in a different direction. You definitely get a lot for your money with a Bianca but there's also a lot to go wrong.

Not seen many with faults? What went wrong?

> @"Cuprajake"#p70816 Not seen many with faults? What went wrong? I remember now I had a vacuum valve go on mine after about 6 months. To be fair though I've had similar 'minor' issues with every machine I've ever had except the LM. And even then it's probably luck more than anything else. I've come to accept that niggles like OPV/safety valve/temp probe niggles are just part of espresso machine ownership.

@"HarveyMushman"#p70822 - agree. I had a Profitec 700 back in the day. Gicar box had to be replaced 10 months after purchase, from new. I’ve been lucky with the Elizabeth. So far (touch wood) nothing, and that’s after 4 years. I had La Pavoni before, anti-vac valve started hissing and got bored of tapping it with a wooden spoon - the recommended solution. Bought a new one, retrofitted and… same rubbish happens… 🤦♂️ @"delta76"#1185 said his Bianca had to have the heating element and “power box” (assuming it’s he gicar box) replaced after 1 year of ownership. But overall, you don’t see many fault reports with Biancas. Also had a Gaggia Classic which never gave me any problems for 3 years. It’s still going strong 10 years later in Sydney.

Yeah, everything has a failure rate. I was in a small % of unlucky owners I think. but it was all covered by warranty, what was lost was time out of commission and my personal time for packaging/unpackaging. But that could happen to any machine you buy (maybe except for LM as I heard their warranty policies mean a technician will come to your house to fix it, don't know if that's true always) If I have to buy a new espresso machine today with ~2000 EUR budget, Bianca is definitely top of the short list.

Nearly decided on a new set up

delta76

dang2484 when you come to a specific brand forum, you only see people come there to ask/complain about their problems, so the essential “feeling” is overwhelming by the errors. but you will see same with other brands/machines. (With the caveat that Bianca is very popular due to its performance/price so the total number of errors reported will be higher, but I expect the rate to be roughly the same)
the only advice I can give, regardless of the machine you pick, is to buy from a reputable seller who is true to their words. and learn how to fix small things. Espresso machines work with very hot water and/or high pressure so things like valves will eventually fail. they should be fairly easy to fix if you know how. if you want to keep your machine for a very long, long time, that is

Seand

It’s my birthday today… I’ve just pulled the trigger on a Bianca and Duo. Will also order an Acaia and nice jug. Any advice on distribution tools? I’ve seen some mad ones lately.

FedEx tracking for delivery tomorrow received within the hour. Nice work.

DavecUK

Seand It’s my birthday today… I’ve just pulled the trigger on a Bianca and Duo. Will also order an Acaia and nice jug. Any advice on distribution tools? I’ve seen some mad ones lately.

Happy birthday, I would wait as far as other accessories go and see how you get on. Then if you find you need something, drop hints at Christmas.

delta76

Seand unless if you are sure you need Acaia (for whatever reason). it is great but also very expensive/overkill. A Timemore black mirror works well enough (accuracy/responsiveness) for a fraction of price
A simple WDT should do the job well. I have a blind shaker from 3MH-BOMBER which is a copy cat of Weber, which works well given it’s around $20 buying from Aliexpress.
My tip is that refrain from buying too many accessories. A scale and a WDT are two things that I’d consider essential. Nice to have are coffee brush( is included with Duo I think), a blower, puck screen. Buy quality but not luxury thing (say, Weber), unless it’s your thing.

And Happy birthday!

dang2484

Seand happy birthday, I’m sure you won’t be disappointed in your choices and can crack out some great espresso 😉

I agree on the tools, not much is needed other than a wdt tool. I did get a 3bomber palm tamper which makes tamper a lot more consistent but I’m sure there’s cheaper versions! I’ve got a cheap scales from amazon that works fine and is still going!

https://bellabarista.co.uk/products/mhw-3bomber-slow-rebound-palm-tamper-adjustable-depth-58-35mm?variant=42618083410093&currency=GBP&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjww5u2BhDeARIsALBuLnPrOfIeSo88F34PzFErToJcRvbaDUQK4Retow1WPpH5IQl_mS-3tI8aAhnWEALw_wcB

Tal

Lovely. I’d like a Bianca, it’s certainly on my radar as a 40th present to myself. Got the duo already and it’s brilliant, very repeatable results from it.

As above. Tamper, WDT tool, scales and milk jug are the bare essentials. I’ve been using cheap WDT tools and they all do a decent job.

Have fun!

MediumRoastSteam

dang2484 think when you’re paying thousands for a hot water machine reliability should be as standard!

https://www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/la-marzocco-linea-micra-boiling-brew-water-t95178.html#p1003539

https://www.home-barista.com/repairs/linea-mini-pump-kicking-in-for-second-or-two-every-hour-or-so-t95414.html#p1003583

LM Linea Micra and Mini. More expensive than most E61 machines. LM is a “premium” brand. Yet… there are failures.

delta76

MediumRoastSteam the sooner someone accepts everything can fail, and will likely fail during their ownership, the happier they will be (or at least, less unhappy stuck in a dilemma) 😀
Sure we should avoid notoriously bad machines with a reputation of unreliable, but well, it’s not that different amongst the rest

MediumRoastSteam

delta76 - I think the whole dilemma is not about failure rate, but about warranty and repairability.

Buy a machine with standard parts and a reputable brand and you are likely to be OK. If something fails, hopefully you can contact the distribution network, obtain spares and fix the machine relatively effortlessly and inexpensively. That’s why I chose the Lelit Elizabeth over the Sage Dual boiler.

dfk41

I think that a lot of these ‘failures’ are not the machine but of parts bought in. My Evo ‘failed’ after 8 months….actually it was the pstat and nothing to do with the design of the machine, but they all count!

DavecUK

It’s my contention that the more standard generic parts used in a machine, the better. If they are high quality parts, that’s a big bonus. In the olden days La Spaziale and a few other companies were truly terrible for having bespoke parts.

This applies to grinders as well, those fancy screens are not standard parts and on some makes can cost £300 for something you think should cost less than £20 and in fact they should cost around that, but the manufacturer knows you can’t get one anywhere else…enter ceado.

MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK - same for gicar boxes, LCC and similars, right? My understanding is that you can only get those from the manufacturers directly, so technically they could charge whatever they want 😔

Seand

Stunning service from Bella Barista. Ordered 3pm Thursday. Arrived 1pm Friday. Not so slick from Niche - up to a week for despatch so I won’t be able to use it until I return from my epic 2 week adventure to the Italian Grand Prix and Prague (no apologies for the brag). I’ve borrowed a Sage Smart Grinder in the meantime, which is obviously awful. Finest setting and tamp hard! What I’m impressed with so far is how quiet it is compared to the LR. Also, all the accessories, especially the tamper and plumb in kit. I also like the external water tank and its movability, it just felt weird having hot water in the tank on the LR. Not so impressed with the plastic wood

Accessories wise, I’ve ordered the Timemore Black Mirror Nano, a Meross smart plug and Motta jug. I’m very keen on recommendations for a WDT tool and levelling tool. I had the Normcore WDT previously and thought it was awful. The prongs got bent very easily and it wasn’t long enough when using a funnel.

In summary, she’s looking very good and I’m excited to play around over the next couple of days before I leave. I’m going with the advice of normalising without messing with the flow control to begin with and may set the auto pre infusion for the time being. One other thing - what is the setting which is recommended to be changed from 0.8 to 0.4 for?

Many thanks for all the suggestions and discussions thus far.

Cuprajake

Don’t need a levelling tool

Wdt needle tool and a normcore funnel

And this tamper

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/145625657918?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=GwMdq2KuQN6&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=8nPtpNt4SJC&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

It’s a copy of the £170 force tamper I’ve had both and the copy is very good

Tal

Cuprajake

Does that tamper tamp level? I tried the normcore levelling tamper and it was consistent, but consistently unlevel. My ridged vst basket makes it easy to see whether the tamp is level or not.

I’m tempted to give your suggestion a go if it’s been good for you.

Cuprajake

The settings should be good to go from factory these days

In terms of the pre infusion use that. Font bother with the paddle unless you go way to corse on grind.

Set the low flow for 5-8s and then it will jump to normal flow.

Bianca is a top machine

Cuprajake

Yeah it’s spring loaded

Tal

Cuprajake

I bought one from AliExpress, around £30, came today. Didn’t realise it was one that clicks back after you fully compress it which wouldn’t have been my first choice. Any issue with the puck becoming unsettled or cracked as a result?

The shots this evening seemed fine on that front, but I think it was a Lance H video ….that said the puck can become disturbed by these sorts of tampers, I will see if we get any bad shots over the next few weeks and make up my own mind.

But kudos where it’s due, it tamps pretty level, Certainly more level than the normcore v4, so on that front we’re in business, cheers for the recommendation.

MediumRoastSteam

Also there’s this from Bella Barista:

https://bellabarista.co.uk/collections/tampers-levelling-tools/products/mhw-3bomber-spring-loaded-tamper-58-35mm-ripple-base-copy

Looks like an imitation of the Bravo Tamper, but if the description is accurate, the mechanics are different.

dang2484

MediumRoastSteam I have this one and is a levelling tamper as well. It’s nicely made but sure there’s cheaper versions!

JHCCoffee

Tal think it was a Lance H video ….that said the puck can become disturbed by these sorts of tampers, I will see if we get any bad shots over the next few weeks and make up my own mind.

Lance likes to find topics to stir up to generate YouTube views. Like the Blind Shaker video. I’d check to see what the day to day experience of everyday users is. Or search for empirical studies. I use an Eazytamp, which is self leveling and has a force controlling spring. It doesn’t do a big click, but you can feel it hir the button of the basket and then stop pressing. It gives me a consistent tamp, which is key.

Cuprajake

Tal never had an issue with either the force tamper or its copy,

perhaps lance cant tamp 🤷‍♂️

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