Yes, Im well aware it won’t appeal to many people. But it produces drinks that wow me, despite being so minimalist, even in the company of the highly-configurable Decent DE1. That’s enough for me to move the Decent on.

Worthy of note is that even Decent recognizes the fill rate of the DE1 is a limitation for puck compression, and is consequently introducing a new vibe pump setup on the Bengle that moves the max out to 12ml/s, later to be followed by a rotary pump that goes out to the 20ml/s range, alike the well-regarded 58mm machines.

Adrianmsmith one of the things I love about the smaller groups is their ability to deliver texture and body, in spades:

That kind of shot needs a massive dose on a 58mm group, and a fast puck compression to avoid having to grind very fine and introduce bitterness into the shot.

    but lance said pressure is a red herring..goes to show theres just way to many ways to do this

    whats the fill rate on the lever? i agree thicker pucks are better, i think sworks does a step down basket for a 58mm did you have one of these ones?

    Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

      Cuprajake but lance said pressure is a red herring..goes to show theres just way to many ways to do this

      Lance says a lot of things, not always correct. I don’t think pressure is a red herring at all, lots of reasons for that.

      Contact me

          Cuprajake fill rate with the lever can be controlled, there’s virtually no drippage on incline, and then I sharp ramp to full pressure (which I’ve measured out past 30ml/s of ramp speed). I’ve found those two things make a massive difference to grind size needed. Can’t get those things the same way on a machine that both wets slowly and ramps to pressure gradually, even if headspace and puck depth is matched up.

          Even Sheldon (Sworks) wont use his step-down basket on the DE1 - the Slayer he’s got outputs 20ml/s, so he gets shots he prefers from it.

          I’m glad you love the DE1. It’s a great machine, but I get better tasting espresso from the Streitman, which is enough for me to sell the DE1 and be open-minded about there being other machines and levers that can do what I personally want, better than it can.

            umm.

            Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

            I am not sure what the spec shows but my Evo 2 outputs nearly exactly 20 ml per second over 30 seconds measured.

            I assume this will be very similar on the vostok . Will that be an issue for you if you require 30 ml per second.

            Coffee is great BTW

            Ade Smith. ACS Evo Leva v2. Kafatek Flat max 2, ssw 2024. Mazzer Philos, Craig Lyn HG-1 prime., WW key mk1.

            About Me

              DavecUK I’ve seen your videos on the ACS levers, and recall you mentioning shot texture on that group being great. I think this is one thing some of us eventually work this out with a lot experimentation, finding a direct correlation with fill rates, pressure ramping, pressure applied over the course of the shot, group diameter, and puck depth, especially if we’re partial to espresso that has good body and texture. For what it’s worth, if I apply pressure even slightly more slowly, it can necessitate a 50+ microns tighter grind. That has quite a marked impact on shot flavor that can’t be dialed out with other parameters.

              As Ive said a few times, my needs are atypical, so, I’m only providing my reasoning. What it means to someone else, is up to them.

                agree

                levers are best of this, shame my dream lever came and then went, but when a machie breaks in the first hour you kinda loose all faith

                the evo has and always will have made the best shots.

                Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

                  Adrianmsmith Well, there’s only one way to find out, heh. I like actually testing and comparing things, so I’ll have fun either way. Based on what I’ve seen, there’s a good chance it will give me more of what I like than the DE1 can.

                      Cuprajake I understand, Jake. I know I should have explained my reasoning better earlier. I was trying to be curt, and it didn’t lend well to the statement.

                        Raja123

                        Pleasing to watch at least

                        If only the phone microphone wouldn’t make it sound like a tank which it really doesn’t!!

                        Ade Smith. ACS Evo Leva v2. Kafatek Flat max 2, ssw 2024. Mazzer Philos, Craig Lyn HG-1 prime., WW key mk1.

                        About Me

                            Adrianmsmith yeah, builds the water column above the puck quickly, so it doesnt soak for too long before being fully compressed by the dual springs. The ramp to pressure shown in one of your vids is insanely fast. I can kind of do that manually to 9 bar on the strietman, but, I wouldn’t say I’ll be able to in the same way as the years go by, lol.

                              id like to see the evo1 vs evo2 and the change in pump, iirc the gear pump is/should be quicker

                              Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

                              I have wondered for some time about the Matrix shower screens. The stack creates 1.5 bar of back pressure, which will hold the water back for longer during fill. However, they likely also impede max flow. Still, would be fun to play around with one and to find out how it affects the shot.

                              That kind of approach is mainly suitable for med-dark roasts, though.

                                Raja123

                                Be aware, I modified my blind sleeve.

                                No longer a “standard safety system” although it retains a lot of damping compared to the standard open sleeve.

                                Mine has 4 × 1mm holes and to me it works fantastic now.

                                You could not do the 30 second test with 1 × 1mm hole as back pressure would trip the pump as it hit set point for “ pre infusion ”

                                You also dont get the same full flow shower as on video above.

                                My current set up is great for me and allows 19.5g with the acs puck screen in the acs 32 basket.

                                54.4 tamper

                                Noone that matters will agree but it’s an improvement for how i want to work with it .

                                And if the impossible did happen, i.e i knocked the portafilter off id rather be hit by the lever then, than with an open cylinder 😎

                                Has anyone actually ever done that?

                                Ade Smith. ACS Evo Leva v2. Kafatek Flat max 2, ssw 2024. Mazzer Philos, Craig Lyn HG-1 prime., WW key mk1.

                                About Me

                                  Yes, I’ve seen the holes you drilled. I had ACS measure the fill rate, and was told it’s 22.5ml/s if the pump is set for 6-bar. I’m sure I’ll have to experiment with it for a while to work things out for certain shot styles.

                                  I’m just counting down the weeks, but the wait is actually useful; the adjacent room is being renovated, after which the room for my office can be painted, and I’ve just found a carpenter to make the coffee bar that I need for the machine. Lots going on over Xmas.

                                    Raja123

                                    Is that with the blind / safety sleeve or the standard open sleeve fitted.

                                    Ade Smith. ACS Evo Leva v2. Kafatek Flat max 2, ssw 2024. Mazzer Philos, Craig Lyn HG-1 prime., WW key mk1.

                                    About Me