Hello all, My first post here. I'd really appreciate your input… In a few months I will probably be able to upgrade my espresso machine, and am set on getting a machine like one of these, that has programmable profiles that you can repeat. I particularly like the Crem One and the way it allows you to experiment with your grind, and it will proportionally adjust your recipe to give you the same yield. I have read of some of the issues with it, the funny sound at low pressures, and possible flooding issues without some safety valve (not sure I got that right). It's already at the far end of "affordable" for me, so the Decent DE1Pro would be 3 or 400 quid more, and though I love the look of the Decent (would look splendid next to my Aillio Bullet roaster) I wonder if it's as robust, the components must be compact versions… I just don't get a sense it's built to last like a bigger machine would. But that's not founded on information, just a feel. The VBM Domobar has a horrifically clunky menu, and does not have as many features as the Crem One… the ACS Vesuvius seems obsolete, and is huge (not sure about that, but I cannot find any manufacturer site online). Really, feature-wise, the Decent and Crem One look like they'd be the most satisfying to experiment with. I'd really appreciate whatever insights/experiences people have had and also if there are other machines I have not discovered yet. I definitely do NOT want to have a lever to manually create profiles on the fly, I would find that very stressful… so no to Lelit/ECM etc for me! Thanks, Mark.

@"markpalmos"#p8006 Welcome to the forum! @"Cuprajake"#144 had a few machines including Crem. He went for Bianca finally and is very happy with it. Lelit Bianca is not a lever like Lr or Evo or Izzo. @"DenisS"#143 had / has a Decent and I think @"tompoland"#121 also has one. We will let them narrate their experiences. I am surprised to read your comment on Vesuvius, although it is heavier side. I would definitely include Vesuvius, Bianca and Decent in your list. @"Paolo_Cortese"#90 of ACS is your man for Vesuvius, should you change your mind. Edit : If you are going to find creating profiles (manually) stressful, would you not find Decent overwhelming ? 😊

@"LMSC"#p8007 Hi, thanks! AFAIK the bianca has a manual flipper thing to change pressure, it does not look programmable to me… is it? I could not find any site on the Vesuvius, found a company called ACS in Canada but they make coffee roasters, no espresso machines listed amongst their products. I also don't think it has the ability to do volume based auto-adjusted shots that the Decent and Crem can do… which is important to me as it gives a lot of scope for fiddling with all the variables for the 10 days or so until I change to a different bean/roast. I'm not scared of technology, just don't want the pressure of having to get things right on the fly, and also to have no way to accurately repeat/adjust the profile… it's a constant live performance. I'm a studio recording kinda guy ;) Thanks! Mark

The crem had issuses with a vibrating pump, bar that one hell of a machine but i didnt like it so went back https://youtu.be/jf_B5_wE-UM I have a bianca which i do like, you can change temp and manually manipulate shots I have always fancied a Vesuvius, and had the deal kf 2k been around when i was buying thats what id of got, you need to deal direct with @"Paolo_Cortese"#90 who is the main guy at acs manufacturers.

@"markpalmos"#p8008 Welcome to the forum, for ACS this is the site. http://www.elcor.it/

@"markpalmos"#p8006 Welcome to the forum. I too, like @"LMSC"#16 was surprised to read your comment about Vesuvius. If the comment "obsolete" was just because it doesn't have fixed volumes for pulling shots this is a minor thing as a simple balance solves this for you. Otherwise I do not have plans for upgrades in foreseeable future due to its future proof concept. Decent is a machine that gets a new version almost every 12 months. I do not have impression from Crem although @"DavecUK"#1 did a very detailed review and it was rather positive. I have heard only good things about Bianca. It was between Bianca and Vesuvius when I had to make a decision. Good luck with whichever you choose.

Hi @"Cuprajake"#144 yep, I did see several dozen posts about that issue on one thread.... and it does seem annoying, though @"DavecUK"#1 did not seem to have this problem. Hello Dave, thanks for the link! @"John_Yossarian"#63 I meant it did not seem to be an active product, mostly because the things I could find about it were many years old, and I could not find any website for them. I do prefer the stuff you can do on the Crem, and love that it can be brought to your pc, shared etc... though in that regard, the Decent is way beyond everything else... I just don't know how robust it is. Thanks all, hoping my @"markpalmos"#393 tagging works ;)

The Decent is warranted for 2 years/200,000 shots, so unless your making 300+ shots a day you should be good for a couple of years! From what I’ve seen they have been supporting people who got the 1.0 version still with minimal charge/for free.

Ive always fancied a decent, but its an ever evolving product, as with anything technology wise, its never finished, and when paying 4k, 6months down the line your model is obsolete or has been tweeked. Thw crem if you dont mind the noise is fine

@"Del_UK"#50 yeah, but it's guaranteed for 2 years only... I'd hope to have a machine this expensive for 10 years... maybe I could only expect that from an ECM or suchlike. @"Cuprajake"#144 I know it will have been tweaked, but given the app is on an android tablet, at least the software should be very easy to keep up. I do feel the Crem would last longer... again, a guess, not based on knowledge. WRT the noise, I seem to recall there was a way around it, which (i think) was to make sure your profile lasted longer than necessary, and you ended the process by using the lever. I seem to recall that did something to the pressures internally which prevented the abrasive sound. Something like that... tx for the input peeps.

While I understand the feeling that a decent is an evolving product, I think in reality that is a good thing. A lot of the improvements are software based, so you benefit from these if you have a machine, rather than it just being stuck at whatever version you bought. When it first came out it only did pressure profiling, and now it can do flow rate profiling and this upgrade is free. In terms of longevity I don’t see any reason to be concerned. They seem to be one of the most transparent companies out there. All of the spare parts are easily available from their website from the most advanced down to a simple screw (see https://decentespresso.com/parts). They also provide their software open source, so it would still be around even if the company went bust. I would agree on longevity if you were considering a “dumb” machine, but the machines being discussed here are all very advanced ones, so they will all contain a computer and many sensors. I would go for the one that best fits your needs and situation. They all look like great machines.

Crem One, Decent, VBM Domobar, Vesuvius - thoughts and advice

Cuprajake

Not sure regards the crem, mine did it from brand new.

LMSC

Most of the machines will come with 2 years warranty. A few might be a bit more for an extra cost. All our members look after the machine, don’t mind a bit of DIY if the seller doesn’t mind and end up having the machine for a long time.

10 years are a long time. We hope you do not get sucked into upgradeitis rabbit hole before you knew it. 😊

The technology on this side has evolved. It will as we see in consumer electronic products - TV, smart phones, computers. So. please don’t worry about it.

It is your machine and you must buy what you like. Choose well. Good luck.

LMSC

BTW, not sure if you mentioned about your grinder and water.

markpalmos

Hi @hornbyben, @Cuprajake, @LMSC, @ronsil
Thanks for your responses.
@hornbyben brings up a good point about the fact that (almost) all Decent parts are available to buy and for users to replace themselves, which is superb WRT longevity.
I’m very keen on the geeky aspects, I have an Aillio Bullet roaster and love analysing my graphs, comparing tweaked recipes of the same beans, and I’m also a huge Android fan, been rooting my phones since Galaxy S2… so I absolutely love the idea of having so much to look at and experiment with.
I will have to wait at least 5 or 6 months before I can buy a Decent, but given the “aliveness” of the community, I’d rather hold on, spend a bit more and get the DE1 PRO… will look gorgeous next to my Bullet (even my wife will like the compact machine!)

Tx all. Mark

Cuprajake

go for the decent then, while you can use a pc for the crem its very basic as in just changing a few numbers, nothing like the detail of the decent

i nearly got a decent but the noise would of crippled me

Giphy -

BlackCatCoffee

Decent seems the obvious choice.

One machine I never see mentioned (probably because I don’t think there is a UK retailer) is the QuickMill Andreja Profiles. I had a play with one at a trade show once and it seemed very nice and QuickMill can certainly put a machine together but I can’t tell you much more.

David

markpalmos

Hi @BlackCatCoffee thanks, I had a look, similar control scope as Crem One and VBM Domobar (pressure profiles)… but yep, once I opened the door to Decent as a possibility, it is WAY, WAY, WAY more sophisticated and capable than all the others. I also like the unusual looks and small size - makes a big difference when having to factor in WIFE-RESPONSE… 😁

BlackCatCoffee

markpalmos

Oh yes, the toughest bit of any purchase!

LMSC

markpalmos

David from BlackCatCoffee is one of the friendliest retailers, who is respected and well known for providing unbiased recommendations keeping his commercial interests aside.

David, we are looking forward to opening Costa Rica Las Palomas in a couple of weeks. Thx for sending it through. It’s in the post. It better be very good! 😊Cheers

hornbyben

@markpalmos, if you don’t need to do loads of back to back milk drinks, and you don’t mind a bit of DIY then you could do the ito mod that I recently did on my Rancilio Silvia (see here if you’re interested: https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/d/256-poor-mans-decent-espresso-itoleva).

This lets you take a single boiler and turn it into a fully functioning pressure profiling machine (although you can’t flow profile or adjust temperatures mid shot). You can pair with a skale 2 or Felicia arc to program a specific dose though.

Total cost was £331.55 for the mod, plus £529 tor a brand new Silvia, so that’s £860.55 for a lot of the same features, and parts for the Silvia are easy to get, so it should have good longevity.

markpalmos

@hornbyben thanks, that sounds very interesting but I’m going to wait 6 months or so until I can afford the Decent.

hornbyben

markpalmos I’m sure you won’t be disappointed. The Decent looks like a great machine.

Stevebee

I’ve got a 1.3 Pro Decent and a Vesuvius, Also an L1 and Evo Leva but they weren’t in the title so I’ll ignore those.

From what you say the Decent will fit the bill exactly. They do release versions each year but there has been minimal changes re hardware. Fore example the latest version upgrade just changed the stand the tablet sits on. They also provide for earlier versions to upgrade at minimal cost.

It can be simple to use if you set it up that way or you can change a shot live on the fly ala Bianca, but with a graph to show what you are doing. I find the most difficult thing, if you decide to go with every software change is keeping up with it all. I got a version that was stable and run with that and only look at updating software every 6 months or so. But, with stop at weight, limitless flow / pressure / temp flexibility you’ll go through a lot of coffee just playing. Will definitely be keeping mine.

tompoland

markpalmos the Decent is quite robust. Not as heavy as many machines but doesn’t mean it won’t last as long. Happy to ànswer any questions of course. Last year I tried a BDB, Synchronika, Decent, La Pavoni Pro, Izzo Valexia and a Streitman and happy to report on comparisons if you have specific questions.

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