chlorox Thx! As I said, it gives the user a choice, besides attracting potential new users who may be sitting on the fence. I know it is up to the user if they want to cut the shot using the new feature.

Innovations are good; the comments posted by the Evo owners / users should not be viewed as defensive at all. This is precisely the problem we all face - I always wonder why the comments posted by one segment of the machine owners to another are not viewed in the right spirit?

IMHO, it is normal if the members ask/discuss the value/utility or pros or cons of one over the other. The comments / discussion on the new feature, how the water would drain after the shot is cut, back flushing, lubricating, dry/soggy puck are not the by-products of a fear over the arrival of a new machine. I would consider them as genuine questions as those members have no view of how these are addressed. 🤷‍♂️

Example, my doubt was more on the back flush - water, or chemical and/or lubricating ? If lubricating, what are we? Is it fair if I ask. I do think it is. 😊

I know, we have seen a lot of Evo bashing in the past when the machine was not in the production stage and the comments were getting too personal elsewhere. It is all about freely and openly discussing the concept, agreeing to disagree and respecting each other as a person!

      LMSC

      You are right - we should give each other the benefit of the doubt. It is just that I have seen a lot of this kind of comments and after a while, it is difficult not to feel like people may feel a little defensive over the new upstart machine.

      I think that the vesuvius evo faced similar comments from owners of a certain other earlier machine when it first came out over whether the new featuresof the evo were needed or not or worked well or not, and it is ironic to me that the same cycle seems to be repeating with the latest machine to appear that is seen as the new competition.

      For me, I think all innovation is good. I would want to see the home lever market flourish more and that this burgeoning bloom continies to bear fruit and a continuing harvest of future better and better machines - after all, how can we upgrade if this doesn’t happen? 😀

      For example I like the timer on the vesuvius evo and I particularly like the auto light on the new vostok and wish my nurri had it. Too few home machines have lights to illuminate the cup during rhe shot and I think every machine and grinder should have them or at leas tthe option to turn those lights on if desired.

      I am glad to answer any question if I can about the machine so ask away…there are some I simply don’t know though the answer of so I will defer to those who are technically minded.

        chlorox Sorry I’m not comfortable to suddenly pull out the plug in the middle of operation of the machine - I’m still too precious over my machine to hazard that!

        Ha! No worries. I completely understand.

        PS: I wasn’t expecting you did that! The rationale behind would be to switch machine off as you did, and then unplug it.

        It’s strange however how the microswitch got activated even though the machine wasn’t on in your case, but for Tom, it was the opposite.

            on a pump machine thats just by design, soon as pressure releases. so the need to back flush

            this is an added feature,

            the soupy pucks add to cleaning thats all im saying, this goes for any machine like that.

            when i first started with my londinium levers the moving the cup and dry knock out pucks were great, as was the cleaning side, when i moved back to the bianca wet pucks became the norm as did the need for back flush, and greasing, its just an added thing thats all.

            for me personally its not a feature id use even if fitted, it probably will become the norm, im hoping im not in the market now for another 10yrs.

            this is the kees instructions :

            Back flush group Back flushing cleans the group and conduits from coffee residue which influences the taste of the extraction since fresh (hot) water is transported to the coffee bed through these parts. It is advised to back flush the groups at least once a day and more often when the machine is intensively used. Described next is the back flush procedure for an individual group.

            Procedure 1. Remove the filter holder, flush the group briefly (with flush-handle).

            2. Clean the group screen and group seal with the plastic group brush.

            3. Pry the filter basket (e.g. with the group screen extractor) from the filter holder (see Figure 21) and replace it with a blind filter.

            4. Scoop 1 teaspoon of coffee dissolving powder in the blind filter and lock the filter holder in the group.

            5. Pull the brew-lever into locking position, unlock when pressure no longer rises (appr. 3.5 bar): pressure will quickly rise to appr. 9 bar.

            6. Keep away from the reach of the brew-lever, then relief pressure (with handle); the brew-lever will return to resting position very quickly, do not remove the filter holder.

            7. Repeat steps 5 and 6 eight times (pressurise, then de-pressurise).

            8. Remove the filter holder from the group, clean the blind filter by flushing it under the tap, flush the group for approximately 5 seconds to remove possible powder from the group screen. Now do it again without adding cleaning powder to remove all powder from the group:

            9. Lock filter holder in group, pull the brew-lever into locking position, unlock when pressure no longer rises (appr. 3.5 bar): pressure will quickly rise to appr. 9 bar. Keep away from the reach of the brew-lever, then relief pressure (with handle); the brew-lever will return to resting position quickly. Remove filter holder and empty in drip-tray, remount filter-holder.

            10. Repeat step 9 four times.

            11. Pry the blind filter from the filter holder and replace the filter basket.

            Clean program Maximum water-pressure during the clean program will be incoming pressure and thus not as high as when you perform the back-flush manually and may thus not be as effective. The groups will simultaneously pressurise for 15 seconds (with pump active when installed) 8 times in a row with a pause of 9 seconds in between. The LEDs on the flush/relief unit will flash during the cleaning program, the digit displays continue to show the temperature. Procedure

            1. Remove the filter holders, flush all groups (with handle).

            2. Clean the group screen and group seal with the plastic group brush.

            3. Pry the filter baskets (e.g. with the group screen extractor) from the filter holders (see Figure 21) and replace them with blind filters.

            4. Scoop 1 teaspoon of coffee dissolving powder in each blind filter and lock the filter holders in the groups.

            5. On the touch screen, start the cleaning program (the LEDs on the units start to flash).

            6. One-by-one pull the brew-levers into locking position (the LEDs remain flashing). While 7 (and 10) is in progress, clean the filter baskets.

            7. After 8 pressurising cycles the LEDs stop flashing, the program has ended. 8. Unlock the levers, relief pressure (with handles).

            9. Unlock the portafilters and clean them under running water, replace in groups.

            10. Start the cleaning program without cleaning powder again to remove all cleaning powder from the groups.

            11. Pull levers into locking position, wait until the LEDs stop flashing (the program has ended). 12. Unlock levers and return to resting position (relief). 13. Replace blind-filters with filter baskets.

            sorry for the derail lol

            fwiw i like the design of the nurri i think its a great looking machine, i did look at them but decided it was too big for my counter, this was bianca time

            Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

              Cuprajake

              If soupy pucks are particulqrly annoying the left paddles can stay unused…but if you had that feature you may find it quite seductively convenient to use, as I did! :)

              BTW that seems like a very complex series of instructions in the case of the kees van der westen for what should be a very simple procedure - especially since it’s supposed to have an auto backflushing program! By contrast the backflushing for the nurri is the same for any pump machine except u use the paddles.

                  At this point on a quick technical level, it’s worth mentioning that the Lever group was never designed to be vented in the same way as other groups E61 etc… Venting it does introduce some issues, these were clear at the show in Trieste where the Vostok one group was demonstrated.

                  These are issues of design, a design that didn’t require venting and thus didn’t cater for it. The group stays pretty clean above the shower screen, although there is a little residue after the number of coffees we pulled on the machine at Trieste.

                  Paolo and I discussed some ways this can be mitigated to give drier pucks and less time the PF has to be left in the machine to drip drip drip. Especially important because the tech I helped Paolo come up with for releasing the lever automatically on pressure (or time) was meant to assist the production of accurately poured espresso on multi group machines in coffee shops. They don’t have the time to wait as at home, it needs to be faster.

                  When I tested the Nurri (ages ago), and the Vostok I found them materially slower to vent, then clean up the messy portafilter, than to let the lever work old style. Certainly not suitable for a shop. On my trip out on the 17th Jan I want to inspect the Vostok one group to ensure the changes meet with the requirements of Baristas in a shop, as well as at home….if it’s to be used in multigroup machines.

                  The software is actually designed for a multi group machine as well, each group would have a separate small control panel, so it could be set differently.

                  Contact me

                    chlorox when you pay a bajillion pounds for a kees machine one simply cannot just back flush 😜

                    Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

                      Cuprajake for me personally its not a feature id use even if fitted, it probably will become the norm, im hoping im not in the market now for another 10yrs.

                      I don’t know about you but I sometimes find features I thought were a must have I end up not using, and features I predicted that would be useless, I end up liking.

                        Regarding the ‘venting controversy’, my personal take is that it’s nice to have innovations provided they don’t have negative side effects on what worked well before. In the case of the Nurri Leva, there doesn’t seem to be any side effect when using the machine the ‘old way’, which is great.

                        Personally, I like Dave’s tupperware solution, as this makes cleaning the machine much easier after each coffee session. The few drops of water from brushing the dispersion screen or of diluted coffee in the drip tray can easily be removed by a sponge, leaving the drip tray shiny and clean with little effort… and the maintenance routine remains as basic as it can be.

                          Eiffel

                          It’s sure vastly preferable to the Teaspoon Trick favoured by Neapolitan baristi !

                            DavecUK

                            Hopefully someone will come up with a better solution to venting the grouphead in the future…

                                dfk41 In a non-commercial environment, does it really matter? Whether you vent or simply remove the cup,

                                I don’t think it does - but it’s nice to have the feature in case the users want to use it for whichever reason.

                                It’s like Microsoft Word - 80% of the home users (and potentially office users) use 20% of its functionality. But it’s nice to have the functionality if/when you want it.

                                    it doesn’t

                                    i like the idea, but so far what ive seen i dont like, purely because you have excess liquid come which you then have to account for,

                                    in the German vid you actually see more liquid come out the group when he pulls the lever to vent,

                                    this is what drives me mad with the coffee industry - one had were using paper filters, puck screens, water recipies and new special baskets with laser cut holes to get that extra 2% extraction, and then in the next breath you have an un metered amount of fluid under what pressure coming into the shot.

                                    again not a dig at nurri, my sage used to do the same, you end the shot then got more liquid come out.

                                    Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

                                      dfk41 - Of course. I never said it would affect taste :-) - It’s just extra functionality to play with. If you want to cut the shot (by means of pressing the paddle) you can. If you don’t want to, you don’t. Maybe you want to make 10 coffees in a row faster than letting the machine depressurise naturally.

                                      Another example: The Elizabeth has timed buttons. I think they are a waste of time and useless. But they are there if someone likes that idea. :-)