I couldn’t help it, I just had to post this (needed to get it off my chest)…it had a profound effect on me, and I’ve been thinking about it all day sometimes with tears in my eyes. There were some very brave people in Ukraine who died, standing up for what’s right. Also reminded me of my Dad, he was in Bombers, Sergeant (Flight Mechanic) Wellingtons and later Lancaster’s during WW2, every time war films came on he would go up to the bedroom and cry.. He flew almost 3 tours…started right at the beginning of the war. You only had to fly one….and then you were done.

The horrors of war.

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    DavecUK changed the title to I heard this on the Radio this morning (Ukraine) .

    Awe-inspiring bravery on both counts 🙏😢

    Humanity it seems is destined to continually repeat the same mistakes. 🙁

      Grif Humanity it seems is destined to continually repeat the same mistakes. 🙁

      It already has with the pandemic and what happened in Nazi Germany.

        DavecUK thanks for sharing. It is extremely troubling.

        It makes me have the reflection that it seems to take lots of courage to live through a war, but it seems to take even more courage to live with the after effects of having live through it. Like your dad crying went thinking about the war. One cannot imagine how hard this must have been

        Let’s hope that what’s right will win in the end. Peace everyone.

          It is heartbreaking, especially as so many Ukrainian and Russian people have family and friends on both sides. I met a couple in the pub in my village on Friday night (of all places) where she was Russian but born in Ukraine and he Ukrainian with family in Russia. Hearing them speak about it was heart-rending. Putin doesn’t care, he just doesn’t want Nato on his doorstep and for that, a beautiful country will be bombed, innocent people killed and it’ll be 1938 all over again unless someone can see sense and go back to the original Minsk2 agreement where Ukraine is deemed neutral and not part of a militarised western bloc. This is stupid, you really would think after 2 years of pandemic people might want some peace. I suspect the majority of actual Russians in their daily lives agree, but it’s a brave citizen who protests in somewhere like Russia. Let common sense and peace prevail.

          • Grif replied to this.

            Hotmetal but it’s a brave citizen who protests in somewhere like Russia

            ….or Canada, France, NZ, Australia….and very soon any country. What Trudeau has just done should terrify everyone as much as what Putin is doing.

                Grif or Canada, France, NZ, Australia….and very soon any country. What Trudeau has just done should terrify everyone as much as what Putin is doing.

                100% . God Bless the Canadian Truckers Freedom Convoy. Say NO to tyranny all around the world. Not just Russia and Ukraine. Sending love to all countries that are under oppression and tyranny.

                  Despite you having my full support to believe whatever you like about vaccine mandates, a post that is dedicated to the suffering of millions due to the Russian invasion of Ukraiine is, in my opinion, not the place to post your views on those mandates.

                    tompoland We want posts like this one. I don’t even care if it’s not true…although I think it might be. A determined man fighting for what’s right, against those just following orders….can achieve remarkable things. …Respect…

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                        Every time I see this man, my respect for him only increases…this is a Leader.

                        I remember hearing about Bidens offer of evacuation, I suspect there is a meme waiting somewhere….and here it is.

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                        I stand shoulder to shoulder with the people of Ukraine (who want to remain Ukrainian), in the same way that I stand with the people in Canada that have had their bank accounts frozen for nothing more than having “unacceptable views”, and anyone else in the world who are being forced into submission. To me tyranny is tyranny no matter what tools are used to achieve it, and it is a global issue.

                        "Men fight for liberty and win it with hard knocks. Their children, brought up easy, let it slip away again, poor fools. And their grandchildren are once more slaves.”

                        -- D. H. Lawrence

                        tompoland tyranny is tyranny. Millions of people have suffered over the last 2 years with oppression and segregation worldwide. We are allowed to express our views however we like thank you very much.

                          Again, just my opinion. And again, full respect for your opinion. Dave is the moderator and he said that that your post comparing the tyranny of vaccine mandates to the tyranny of a dictator starting a war is appropriate in this thread. And I’ll respect that too. My issue was not about your right to express your view.

                            tompoland Again, just my opinion. And again, full respect for your opinion. Dave is the moderator and he said that that your post comparing the tyranny of vaccine mandates to the tyranny of a dictator starting a war is appropriate in this thread. And I’ll respect that too. My issue was not about your right to express your view.

                            Did I, no I didn’t. Both your points of view are fine

                            DavecUK We want posts like this one. I don’t even care if it’s not true…although I think it might be.

                            When I said this, I was talking about “The Ghost of Kiev” not what @drdre89 said.

                            The Ukraine thing touched me personally because a lot of things happening there reminded me of many things my Dad used to say about WW2 and trust me a lot of what’s in our history books isn’t quite true. Truth, truly is the first casualty of war.

                            Oppression is a truly terrible thing, to create a narrative, distort the truth, and treat people in such a way is the reason my Dad, who was in a protected operation, left and signed up. Simply because he believed what was happening was wrong, a braver man than I will ever be. I asked him why the RAF, he said, at the time I thought I would die and at least it would be quick. He also got Married, so his girlfriend would get a war pension. When I said, but at that time 75% of bomber crews were not coming back from a raid..he said, that’s why I got married.

                            Early on in the war..each time he went out on ops…the canteen was almost empty the next morning, the men replacing them getting younger and younger.

                            So freedom of speech (within limits on a forum), yes of course, to be offended by oppression across the world, I think we all are. Even though this thread is specifically about Ukraine, because that’s topical, we should never forget the atrocities in the world today and in the past….because that’s the only way we will move forward as a species.

                            To my personal shame, this hit very hard with me….I could have done better when I was younger, especially if I had seen this when I was 20..

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                                All good Dave.

                                Personally I’m anti mandate. So my post was not about being for or against anyone’s point of view. Nor was it about people’s right to express their views.

                                I feel strongly about the what’s happening in Ukraine and in my world the subject of mandates is not in the same league. That’s because I don’t share the view that tyranny is the same whatever form it takes any more than I see all cancer or all weather being the same.

                                But I’m fully respectful of others views as I am of your decision to support all of these posts.

                                Go well everyone.

                                Well, seeing as we’re all expressing our views, I’ll express a couple, too.

                                First, nobody should be forced to vaccinate against their will. Also, not doing so is idiotic, but people have the right to be idiots, Like I said, my view.

                                Second, what they don’t have is the right to hold everybody else to economic blackmail by blocking bridges, and threatening not just a large chunk of the economy, but the livelihoods of other people, and they sure don’t have a right, in any democracy, to do so in the face of successive court orders, That isn’t protest, it’s anarchy. Again, my view. Nobody else is obliged to agree, any more than I’m obliged to care if they do or not.

                                Third, what’s going on in Ukraine is both truly gut-wrenching, and highly predictable. It’s the kind of thing a-hole dictators do when in power for too long with no effective way of getting them out. The likes of Saddam and Ghaddafi would have if they could have. I feel terribly for the Ukrainian people but,there’s nothing I can do about it so I’ve been avoiding as much of it as I can,and boycotting TV and radio news, as it’ll make me feel bad, and I do that well enough anyway without help from Putin.

                                Fourth and finally, that this thread went so far off such a serious track, so fast, that’s it stands as a masterclass in why politics on a forum is a bad idea. Yes, Dave has done so much for this forum, and the community, that I 1000% (not a mistype) support his right to post it if he needs to. Lord knows he’s earned that much. Nonetheless, not a good idea …. in my view.

                                So, I’m leaving this one alone from now on.

                                  Politics … religion … but coffee has a green light, something we are all here for.

                                    CoffeePhilE I choose not to take part in an experimental gene therapy mRNA medical procedure through this inoculation that does not prevent or stop the spread of the virus. That is my choice.

                                    Glad we can agree on all enjoying a good coffee.