I wonder how many coffee shops properly dial in their espresso each morning to ensure their grind/dose etc is correct. I can only think of one coffee shop I’ve ever visited that I saw weighing the output from the grinder, all the rest would just be a set dose which could vary from cup to cup.
Do you ever say anything when you get served terrible coffee?
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I see quite a few local places weighing their dose precisely, but then it’s all futile as the grind is still all wrong and the resultant coffee is terrible. I can only assume this is down to bad training. The barista has taken the time to dose the PF correctly but doesn’t know to periodically taste or check the output.
In London and some of the more notable roastery cafes I’ve been to I’d commonly see proper Barista training happening or an employee off to the side tasting the coffee.
Something I wonder is how many commercial machines have volumetric extractions? I don’t think I’ve ever seen a set of scales on the drip tray of a commercial machine so I guess they must be timed shots since they auto-stop.
If these aren’t set each morning and checked alongside the grind then it’s another variable to go wrong.
I definitely think customer appetite is a factor. In an area with a lot of high quality coffee shops I guess peoples taste improves. It’s the same with restaurants, most of them round here are mediocre at best but always full…
From experience it depends on the type of coffee shop, multi roaster cafes that serve coffee from international roasters (like prufrock or lowdown in Edinburgh) tend to have the highest standards, dialling in and adjusting throughout the day and using refractometers to check extractions. Then usually roaster cafes are dialling in and weighing input and output adjusting based on taste. After that cafes that are wholesale customers of local roasters can be a bit more variable, some will have high end equipment and staff trained to dial in and check but some don’t because usually they focus on other sides of the business like food offerings or baked goods and the coffee is secondary.
In regards to volumetrics, a lot of places have volumetrics now, and they are reliable but still variable. Maybe 2-4g if they are checked when dialling in. More shops are now moving to better technology, la marzocco has the Linea pb ABR which has built in scales and measures the brew weight and stops consistently with a variance of about 1g total maybe less from when I used it.
More cafes are also using the mahlkonig e65s gbw which weighs the coffee instead of a timed dose and can self adjust when the grind needs adjusted, the grinder isn’t perfect but it does really improve workflow in high volume cafes and the technology is creeping into other manufacturers
Coffee Roaster. Home: Sage Dual Boiler, Niche Zero, Ode v2 (SSP), 1zpresso ZP6 Work: Eagle One Prima EXP, mahlkonig e80s, Mazzer Philos and lots more
Really interesting insight thanks. I had no idea about commercial tech in machines/grinders. I knew about grind by weight but didn’t realise it was advancing like that.
Maybe I’ll add an e65s to the shopping list 😬
my coffee hobby started in lock down - ive NEVER been to a proper coffee shop
Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -
Ernie1 I mean there is even the new mahlkonig e80s GBW which has 80mm lab sweet style burrs very similar to the ditting 807 lab sweet, if money is no real concern. Although for home use the ditting would probably be a better choice
Coffee Roaster. Home: Sage Dual Boiler, Niche Zero, Ode v2 (SSP), 1zpresso ZP6 Work: Eagle One Prima EXP, mahlkonig e80s, Mazzer Philos and lots more
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@InfamousTuba One day! A MK e65/80 is definitely on the list for my endgame grinder.
You’ve been missing out! Ask all of your neighbours to set up laptops in the Kitchen, extract stale beans to 1:2 in about 12 seconds, froth milk until it’s effectively a milkshake and chuck £3.20 in the bin and you can recreate the coffee shop experience at home.
Ernie1 I met a friend recently and he picked a cafe as the meeting point. I said fine, he said we’ll have a coffee, I said fine! I was telling him about my coffee escapades in the last couple years (ahem joining this forum and spending lots of money which he was aghast at!!) I explained I don’t drink coffee ‘out’ much anymore and he asked ‘are you not cutting your nose to spite your face’? Meaning I wouldn’t be able to enjoy coffee ‘out’ anymore, but hey, it’s good at home, there’s always beer or wine when ‘out’!!
I used to enjoy a “cappuccino” made by the specialty coffee shop in the downtown Toronto office building where I worked daily (pre-Covid). This really was a latte, as they didn’t know how to make the thicker foam required for a true cappuccino, which would have precluded the latte art that they insisted on drawing on my supposed cappuccino. I didn’t want the pretty picture late art; just a decent cappuccino. But they wouldn’t listen.
While I could make a better cappuccino at home (using my then Bartaza Sette 270W, and by temp surfing and pressure profiling my modded Breville DuoPro), their “cappuccino” was way better than the fake cappuccino’s and espressos and americanos produced by our office coffee machine. Then Covid hit in March 2020 and work at home we all headed. Which allowed me ample time for an early morning cappuccino. I now WFH full time and enjoy a daily morning cappuccino (well actually 2) made on my NZ and Lelit E.
Since then I loathe to buy a cappuccino in a coffee shop, though I suppose if I look harder I will again find one that makes semi decent espresso (Covid put them and many downtown coffee shops out of business; I in any event live uptown).
I won’t buy an after dinner decaf coffee in a restaurant anymore, as even the best restaurants (even Italian or French) do not train their staff to make good espresso. When I do order a coffee, it always turns out to be watery tasteless swill with foam on top, which I end up returning with apologies. One resto proudly gave me another complimentary cup, which had somewhat thicker foam on top of brown water, which I pretended to drink.
I can only think of one exception, and that is George, which is IMHO the absolute best and also most expensive French restaurant in Toronto. They served an excellent cappuccino, but then that was before I was spoiled by the quality of espresso that I have recently been able to produce with my NZ and Lelit E.
My quest for a good cup of cafe or restaurant espresso thereby continues. I really really would love to find a Toronto based barista with a reputation for making stellar espresso, so that I can compare what I make (and how I make it) to theirs. So @lancehedrick , who do you know in Toronto who makes great espresso?
I used to enjoy coffee shop and restaurant coffee. Now, I only enjoy mine. I suppose it was worth it …. Sigh 😔
Yes and how much coffee can one drink after the quota being exceeded most days at home due to the justification of this excessive expenditure 😂
It is “Man Myths” guys.
JahLaza Yes and how much coffee can one drink after the quota being exceeded most days at home due to the justification of this excessive expenditure 😂
Oh, that’s easy:
(just don’t read beyond the headline… the amount of coffee was indeed very low)
My personal experience went amazing with dutch bros there staff is like angels and treated you so nice.