@"DavecUK"#p12737 Thanks Dave.. interesting because it occurrs to me the Vesuvius plus a bluetooth connection and the right programming would be the perfect synthesis of build quality (ECM) innovation (Decent) all wrapped in a traditional E61 style body. Can you convince @"Paolo_Cortese"#90 to update it? I love mine, which I bought second hand largely on the basis of your reviews; its taken me a year but I think I've finally got the hang of it!

@"Grahamsphillips"#p13074 I'd put an order in for one of those!

> @"Grahamsphillips"#p13074 Can you convince [@Paolo_Cortese](https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/u/Paolo_Cortese) to update it? It would mean losing that lovely old, but proven super reliable main board…..

hi, could some one with a vesuvius with the wood/metal handle please email off my sig

I have a wooden handled bottomless pf (generic) that I bought for my Elizabeth then a barista pro IMS basket in it. Will this IMS basket fit the supplied bottomless pf that comes with the Vesuvius?

So, my Vesuvius arrived today. I didn’t want to start another thread and this looked like the most appropriate place to discuss my first day! It left Italy last Friday and arrived in my house today - 6 days, yipee! Mine was definitely used, the plastic was gone from it, there was dirt here and there, spilled water underneath the water tank and for some reason the pipes going onto the tank had a black residue of some sort on parts of them. The panel on top of the machine, where the cup test sits is pretty badly finished with dirty plastic covering it but doesn’t bother me. I didn’t pay for a brand new machine I guess!! Assembling was easy as the provided guide is comprehensive (remember the first thing you do is unscrew the four screws on the top of the side panels, no hammer or anything required) The Teflon furniture gliders I pre purchased are perfect for moving it around on the counter top. A bag of felt pads come with the machine. I put 1L through the group 200ml at a time with at least 15 seconds in between. I then emptied the service boiler twice as per manual. I noticed the shower screen had coffee on it so I soaked that in puly caff and gave a good wash. At this stage I only had time to pull 4 shots as I had to leave! I was close to dialled in by the fourth albeit a bit long but I took it with me in the car- I have to say it was very very nice. So I look forward to playing with it tomorrow. I thought I had a dodgy touch screen as it didn’t seem to respond some times but apparently there are different delay times for different choices on it.. phew..! Looks a stunning machine on the counter and I love the almost totally silent pump. I thought the water reservoir wasn’t the best design but I think I’ll get used to it and won’t have to be refilling it so often when I’m not flushing the system through and just using it to make coffee! It really is a different operation to the Elizabeth but I don’t think it will take long to get used to it. So, I can’t wait to drink coffee from it tomorrow

[upl-image-preview url=//i.imgur.com/cumOEwk.jpeg] I use this type of oil can to fill any of my machines with water.

@"DavecUK"#p13617 I ordered this one by someone’s recommendation on here: https://www.toolstation.com/laser-plastic-measuring-jug/p20428 Seems really ok although the spout is not very flexible

@"DavecUK"#p13617 [URL=https://i.imgur.com/U0mYj3V.jpg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/U0mYj3V.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

@"prezes"#p13619 mines very similar and probably on something from nu-man, the image I found seems to have brewers droop.

I used a plastic 2 litre water bottle today!

Vesuvius Pressure Profiling Machine - General Discussion

Kape17

Greetings from California! As you know I am a newbie with the espresso hobby. Question: In your opinion what is better flow profile or pressure profile? There is a lot of debate between these 2 profiles or controls.

Does it make sense to add a flow control on my Vesuvius?

Thank you for your expertise and you guys have help me a lot with other issues.

DavecUK

Kape17 Welcome to the forum…It’s doesn’t make sense really to add flow control to the V, you already have a very sophisticated profiling system.

Kape17

DavecUK thank you for the advise. Have a great day!

jonathanUSA

DavecUK I read that you can pre infuse at 1.5 bar on the V. Because I could not set mine to less than 2 I got the flow valve to have some fun. An additional learning since adding that hardware is that the group pressure can be lower than pump pressure at high flow rates such as with turbo shots. Anyway, if anyone knows how to get the V down below 2 bar in a profile I figure it’s you. Any suggestions?

DavecUK

jonathanUSA I believe it was limited to 2 bar….and I don’t believe it can be set to less than 2 bar…unless they did a firmware change I was unaware of some years ago, but I can double check that today. The rationale was that below 2 bar the brew boiler itself can give positive pressure, admittedly not much, but there was the thought that this might prevent the brew boiler filling…I personally think 0.5 bar as floor would be fine to prevent that. In fact I don’t think there ever would be any real risk of heating element exposure, even if the pump stopped and I have mentioned over the years about lowering the minimum pressure and introducing 0 pressure phases!

Also there was the belief at conception that people wouldn’t want to preinfuse at 2 bar.

….anyway I’ll find out for sure if there was a firmware change.

jonathanUSA

DavecUK So I have pre infused by just lifting the handle past the closing the exhaust that depressurized the group into the tray and just before the cam engages the switch and turns on the pump. This point opened the brew valve a little and you get a nice flow from brew boiler pressure alone. It works well in fact. Problem was when I lifted the handle all the way and the pump kicked in. This was about 30 seconds of infusion with pump off and when it turned on it behaved as if it was not primed by winding up to max RPM and when pressure began once again to build it overshot to the tune of 14 bar which was 5 over the 9 in the program. A lot of words to say that I think the system must maintain some minimal back pressure on the pump. So, a 0 bar stage option would be great. Pressure at the group would remain and decrease as puck was soaked but the pump would still be primed.

MediumRoastSteam

jonathanUSA - are you sure the brew boiler is ever under pressure without the pump being on?

It wasn’t the case on E61 machines I owned in the past. Maybe the Vesuvius has some sort of feature which allows that?

DavecUK

MediumRoastSteam are you sure the brew boiler is ever under pressure without the pump being on?

I am 100% certain. As is pretty much every brew boiler of dual boiler machines.

MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK ok, I’m confused. 😊

Is the pressure we talking about here due to the fact the water in the brew boiler is usually slightly above boiling point, e.g.: 107C if we want 94C at the group sort of thing. But is his pressure sufficient to pre-infuse anything?

Maybe I should have being more specific in my previous post, sorry. Now, If the brew boiler is at pressure around 0.5 bar or more sort of thing, then I would like to understand how, for my own benefit, please. 👍😊

DavecUK

MediumRoastSteam Is the pressure we talking about here due to the fact the water in the brew boiler is usually slightly above boiling point, e.g.: 107C if we want 94C at the group sort of thing. But is his pressure sufficient to pre-infuse anything?

Yes and it really does puck wetting, probably not to any great depth…

ignazthecat

caffeineus_impervious

Hello. Replacing just the square pin that the cam activates on the top valve pin fixed the “no flow” problem we were having. There is some leak/dripping through the group dispersion screen after shot pulled so the gasket seal likely needs replacing too. Very grateful to Dave for guidance and Caffeineus_Impervious for sharing his travails. Learned you can disassemble and reassemble the e61 in about 4 minutes if you have the right tools and put the parts in the correct order!

A new matter is the pump screams up to 12+ bar when the lever activated for about 12-15 seconds before H2O comes out of grouphead…even on profiles with 2.3 bar preinfusions programmed. Our workaround is to activate lever for this weird pressure surge 15 seconds, turn off lever, install loaded portafilter, then activate lever and it works as programmed.

DavecUK

ignazthecat A new matter is the pump screams up to 12+ bar when the lever activated for about 12-15 seconds before H2O comes out of grouphead…even on profiles with 2.3 bar preinfusions programmed.

This is an odd behaviour that doesn’t logically correlate with any error I can think of? Usually this means there is something you may not have mentioned?

Pump pressure controlled by pressure transducer and feedback, as soon as pump reads set pressure it will cut back, not stay there for 12 seconds
Water not coming out of group = blockage (but see point 1?)
Then water comes out, because of air in brew circuit = non return valve or top group valve leaking (so why 12 bar+), alternatively, blockage is intermittent (again see point 1)
It works as programmed after the pressure surge (can’t think of a reason why it would do this)????
It’s a new problem, is it related to the work you did (quite likely)

So work the problem, here’s the things I don’t know, and without knowing them, I can’t help, only sp;eculate.

what exactly did you do, is the group assembled correctly
what are the profile settings exactly
does it do it with a straight 9 bar profile
can you post a video with sound showing the problem, show the display and any gauges (don’t make it too short, it doesn’t cost anything
what are the advanced PID settings for the pump, P I and D, plus pump acceleration (remind me of the construction year when you do as Cruzet, the maker of the mag drive unit for the pump made a change in the impulses required in later models, which means different PID settings are needed).

So far the only conclusion based on the information provided is the problem doesn’t make sense, so it must be a fault in the control board or pump that has coincidentally sprung up just as you finished the work. However, I really don’t like coincidences and the pump control units are bullet proof, the same with the control boards….so I think it’s extremely unlikely either have a problem.

tocateclas

ignazthecat

ignazthecat A new matter is the pump screams up to 12+ bar when the lever activated for about 12-15 seconds before H2O comes out of grouphead…even on profiles with 2.3 bar preinfusions programmed. Our workaround is to activate lever for this weird pressure surge 15 seconds, turn off lever, install loaded portafilter, then activate lever and it works as programmed.

I have experienced this issue. It was the one way valve beside the group. This valve prevents water from the coffee boiler returning to the water tank. If you are experiencing this, just make a mark (tape or marker pen) to get sure what the water level is in the water tank. After some hours with the machine idle and before switching the pump, check if the level is higher. If so, you will see the pump going faster trying to build pressure, water level going down in the water tank and water comming trough the group when water level arrives where the mark is. Problem was it didn’t always happen. Once a day, once a week, three times in a day, once in a month. Unpredictable. I sent the machine for servicing where acs asked me, a workshop in Spain not far from where I live. They video talked to ACS, asked for all the spares and change all the big brass piece under the group and some electro valves (hx one and auto fill). Problem showed again from the very first day. I talked to the workshop and arranged to send them the vesuvius back again but… suddenly it started to work fine and has been doing it for months. Problem doesn’t show up yet but I can’t say till when…

This seems to be related with a strange over shooting when the steam boiler is hot, above 120-125º. Some pressure from the steam boiler gets into the brew circuit and creates some short of obstacle at 2 bar. The pid asks for pressure and makes the pump run faster over shooting the profile and ruining the shot. No problem with service boiler off or under 120-125ºC. I posted some videos in this forum some months ago. I known three more Vesuvius owners in Spain and all of us have this interference in the coffee circuit. Having disassembled the machine, replacing all the parts acs asked for and having the same problem after all is quite discouraging…

JahLaza

I’m having the same issue experienced before over the last couple weeks. It shoots up to 12 bar and above after the initial 2 bar preinfusion. I changed beans a couple days ago and it’s the same with both bean types. I’ve changed pump speed from 410 down to 230 and 210, I’ve tried kp values of 11,10.5, various other values down to 8.0. It seems to happen no matter what. I’ve obviously kept all other variables (puck prep etc.) as constant as possible. Any suggestions please?

DavecUK

JahLaza age of machine, advanced settings for all pump parameters please.

ignazthecat

JahLaza

I’ve found that the high pressure start comes with first “pull” or activation of the machine after a long rest like overnight or an hour. The second activation seems normal at the preset pressures. My for now solution is to start the machine for it to get this initial pressure ramp out of the way, THEN insert the tamped portafilter and activate the machine. THis way we run our regular four doubles over about thirty or forty minutes in the morning.

I have not messed with the pump speeds. Maybe six months ago I fiddled with the heat exchange to put it in ECO mode to reduce our electricity usage but this hi pressure ramp start is a more recent behavior.

P2: 8s at 2.2 bar, 32 sec at 6.2 bar, 4 sec at 5 bar.

P5 is 90 sec at 9bar. Still has cranked up ramp.

In the video the machines first run of the day without a portafilter shows this high ramp then settles to pressure setting. At 50 seconds a loaded portafilter runs at P2 settings pretty normally. The video shows that the hi pressure ramp occurs without any resistance from the puck.

Vesuvius Pressure ramp

JahLaza

DavecUK thanks,will get the details when I get home later,but it’s 15 months old and had been working fine until lately (last couple weeks maybe)

JahLaza

DavecUK

manufactured 03/2022

Pump kp 10.5, ki 0.24 (factory), kD 90 (factory)

Pwm max. Accel 220.

So, all I’ve ever changed is max accel., and kp. The profiles I’ve been using are 8 or 10 secs at 2bar then 9 bar but it shoots on up north of 12 bar and as I stated above I’ve tried a few different settings and still does it. Nothing has changed other than me varying the above two parameters since noticing this (except I’ve only been drinking one espresso a day the last few weeks as I’m away all day)! Machine is warmed up for 50 mins each morning before I use it

DavecUK

JahLaza thanks,will get the details when I get home later,but it’s 15 months old and had been working fine until lately (last couple weeks maybe)

I guess the big question then….what’s changed? This is because it won’t be the control board, or cruzet control/motor unit.

DavecUK

JahLaza All looks OK, possibly drop maria at ACS a video and description of the problem?

JahLaza

DavecUK yip will do if I can in the morning

JahLaza

I know it’s been listed here a few times but I can’t find it easily! Can someone provide the email for Maria please? I have the general one from the Elcor website but maybe there’s a more direct line? Thanks

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