Stevebee How are the 83mm compared to the original 71mm Steve?

I did my first back to back comparisons last weekend (83mm Mazzer Robur in the Malwani versus 71mm Mazzer Robur in the Helor) and to me they tasted so similar that I’m certain that I would not be able to pick the difference in a blind taste test.

I never used it much recently with the 71mm burrs as I tend to use the 98 flats in the Ultra for espresso. Used it more recently with the 83mm but not back to back like you so difficult to say. Do prefer it to the Niche as it seems to produce a clearer cup at filter grind. Might be grind speed rather than burr size tbh but haven’t done enough testing

    Good read on all the discussion here. I own a Jx Pro and this is my first espresso related. I am thinking about upgrade. I have zero experience in electric grinder but I love the simplicity of Jx Pro in term of its low retention and low maintenance and ease of cleaning. So my next upgrade may likely be a hand grind. It seems that the Omega will not offer very significant improvement in cup compared to the JX Pro.

    Has any of you looked at the HG-1 Prime? I just heard about this grinder. I was surprised that it costs “only” a portion of the HG-2 with comparable spec. And it seems the HG-1 and HG-2 are in the elite league of hand grinder. Would love to hear your thought on it. Thanks.

      Stevebee the extra clarity (over the Niche) is more likely due to burr geometry than RPM. Niche has Mazzer Kony and the other burrs are both Mazzer Robur.

      Knluk I looked at the HG1 and 2 but ended up going with a Malwani Livi fitted with Mazzer Robur (same as Key grinders). I like the Livi’s three gears and the style.

      Have to say I really like the look of the Prime but it came out after I ordered the Livi. I suspect you will notice a difference if you upgrade. But other than the reduced grind time the difference won’t be huge but IMHO still very worthwhile.

        tompoland the Liri is new to me but it does look nice. Great choice. I just checked the price and the HG-1 Prime is cheaper than the Liri but I didn’t include shipping and tax.

        My main objective is the quality in cup as I don’t mind the grinding time and muscle effort with the JX Pro (yet?).

          I been using the HG-1 Prime for a few months now. Previously owned DF64 w/ MP burrs and a Niche zero. What questions about the prime do you have?

            Gtbarringer work flow would be interesting and also any difference you notice in the cup compared to whatever grinders you were using preciously. Your impression of quality too, although I imagine it is top notch. Thanks!

            Knluk if you consider the Livi please bear in mind they come with Italmill burrs and I swapped them out for Mazzer Robur burrs so that could add a few bob more to your purchase. It’s a very easy swap to do at home though.

            Background info: I drink 2-4 espressos daily, no milk drinks and its City roast for beans.

            HG Prime, as a total package, is my favorite grinder to date. Previously owned Nuova Simonelli grinder, Specialita, Niche, and DF64. Specialita was unimpressive and not super consistent for single dosing. DF64 with SSP MP burrs was fun to play with and produces really tasty brews. However the grinder is not fun to live with; the DF64 is too messy and loud. Niche is a close second because the work flow is beans in and hit a switch. My biggest complaint with the niche was every cup had a lingering astringency I could not get rid of. I experimented with ratios, timings, temps and it was always still there. HG Prime is best of both worlds (DF flavor + Niche workflow). Beans in, crank, and shake is my work flow. Brews are tasty without the lingering astringency. Hand grinding is the trade off for 83mm burrs for under $1K.

            Build quality is impressive even more so when considering the grinder is sub $1k USD. The OEM Mazzer burrs are a significant portion of that cost. Fit and finish is top notch. Machining tolerances are tight and the parts fit together nicely. The grinder is assembled with industrial grade fasteners, and The only plastic part is the grounds sweeper. The stepped adjustment spacing is fine enough to dial in accurately. Overall, I am really happy and don’t have any urge to upgrade.

              Gtbarringer thanks for the detailed sharing. Great to know your are a happy user. What is your experience on the need to mount it?

              Mind sharing the total cost to U.K. including shipping and tax? Anyhow, the HG-1 Prime looks like a very good grinder. Wonder what HG-2 can offer to justify the £400 difference.

              tompoland Is that a Honne you have there on your table too? Curious about that one too! :-)

                Tjyven well spotted. I agreed to write a review for the Honne and I will post it here next week. In short, it is top notch for my favourite espresso being medium or medium/dark. In the review I also address the ethical dilemma of it being a copy of the Versalab.

                  tompoland Aha, thought your review would be for the Malwani Livi, but I have also been spotting the Honne so really looking forward to this review!

                    Tjyven actually I have a series of grinder reviews that I’m working on. Quite enjoying trying a few and noting my thoughts. The process of writing a review over a month or so of use, forces me to try different things, make notes and come to some firm conclusions, as opposed to what I normally do which is to use the grinder mindlessly and wonder vaguely if the results could be better.

                    I posted a short review here and on Coffee Snobs (Australian based forum) of the Helor 106 a couple of weeks back.

                    The next review will be the Honne and that will be quite an extensive review.

                    After that, I’m going to write one for the Malwani Livi, so it’s “watch this space”!

                    I also have an Olympia Moca SD on pre-order.

                    I like to review these types of grinders because they fascinate me and also, there is not a lot of information about these ones. I don’t have any intention or desire to be an influencer as such, so I’ll only be posting here and on CS although I will use YouTube to host any videos.

                    tompoland I went to pick it up… (well, not quite, but a holiday in Italy helped with delivery!)

                    Unboxing - some rather crappy photos (sorry!)
                    The Omega is shipped in a “Mazzer home” cardboard box

                    Inside of which is another shrink-wrapped high-density cardboard box - other than the wrapping film, no plastic in sight; even the inner parts of the packaging are all card/paper. Well done Mazzer!

                    I’m not sure I believe the “handmade by Riccardo” kind-of-thing (especially since the serial number is printed everywhere except on the grinder itself…), but at least the marketing team may feel they have “added value” 😏. Instructions are basic - but then again, it’s a simple manual grinder meant for home use.

                    Assembly
                    Inside the box, there is very little other than the grinder itself (partly assembled: main body, handle, knob/cap) and a couple of silicone rubber bands to fit on the grinder body to increase grip and comfort.

                    Assembly is very straightforward. Twist the grounds cup onto the bottom of the body, insert the handle into the axle, slide the knob on the other end of the handle, click to your desired grind setting (more on that below), and you are ready to grind!


                    Storage is also simple - the handle uses magnets to attach itself to the steel grind-setting ring and to a cleverly-inserted steel band on the grounds cup, while the knob acts as cap to the grinder body, and is secured by another magnet that attaches to the axle. Both magnetic catches are nicely weighted - the handle will (just!) hold the weight of the body and knob, and the knob won’t fall out if the grinder is turned upside-down.

                    The grinder comes pre-calibrated so that the burrs are closed at the zero setting. The very basic instructions supplied don’t explain how to re-calibrate and add stark warnings not to disassemble the setting mechanism at all; on the other hand, short of changing the burrs, why would one want to do that? I have let Lord Vetinari’s motto (Si non confectus, non reficiat) be mine, at least for the time being.

                    I asked Mazzer why the machine was assembled with ‘mismatched’ burrs… and the very quick (next morning) reply is that the outer burr is the same for ‘soft’ and ‘fast’ and is marked 0198C. The inner burr changes, and is marked 0198C for ‘fast’ and 0199C for ‘soft’.

                    First use
                    Until now, I have only experimented with Turkish coffee, and the recommended Mazzer setting of ‘between index 3 and index 4’ seems to work well, with a perceptible difference in body feel every 2 clicks (each index number on the Mazzer is divided into 6 steps/clicks). Espresso has a broader recommended range of index 4 to 7, so 24 clicks in all - not yet tested, so I can’t tell you how easy this is to dial in to whatever level of precision. I suspect removing the ‘clicking’ mechanism and getting a ‘stepless’ adjustment would be quite easy, but since there isn’t a locking device it may result in an unstable setting. As it is, one needs to be careful to grip the body in the middle, as it’s easy enough to move the setting while grinding if one grips too close to the top.

                    Loading the grinder is easy: with a standard 18-20 grams double espresso (or Turkish) dose the built-in funnel works well and I have had no problems of beans ‘jumping out’ while grinding. My set of ‘soft’ burrs is easy to use with a medium-dark roast, requiring ~180 turns for grinding 18 grams to a mid-setting in the “Turkish” range. The grounds cup holds 100 ml, so the estimated capacity of 42 grams of grounds may be a bit optimistic. The grinder body will hold about 40 grams of beans, but I haven’t tried grinding them in one go.

                    The grinding action is soft (at least - I didn’t find it to require a lot of effort), but there is a clear feeling through the handle when larger pieces are grabbed by the top of the burrs. This is not in my view a negative - just don’t expect a ‘butter smooth’ operation like a de-multiplied grinder may give.

                    During the first grinds, there was a fair bit of static in the cup and around the bottom of the burrs, and quite a few retained boulders in the grinder body, even if the burrs felt ‘free’ of grounds, but both effects seem to be wearing away after 2 weeks of moderate use (2 grinds/day, so about 0.5 kg of beans). Whether that’s the grinder getting run-in or me getting used to the feel of the grinder… I’ll leave you to judge.

                    Pouring the grounds out is very easy - the cup will fit pretty much any filter from 47 to >58 mm, with the ‘easiest’ range between 51.5 and 58.

                    Cleaning and maintenance are also very easy - remove the cup, unscrew the retaining nut using the handle to stop the axle from spinning, and everything comes apart.

                    Re-assembly is equally straightforward - just be careful not to lose the little steel key fixing the inner burr to the axle. The re-assembly retains the grind setting perfectly.

                    Weight and dimensions are reasonably true to the published specs (height 196 mm with the cap on, measured weight 780 grams vs 750 published), but I think the published width of 78 mm is a bit deceiving: with the handle on, it’s about 180 mm, and the body diameter is 65 mm. It only becomes 78 mm when the handle is removed and fixed to the side.

                    Build quality and finish
                    Mazzer clearly has made an effort to build a stylish, well finished product. I’m not an expert in grinder design, but I would say that they went for engineered durability and robustness over “easily visible” attributes (another reviewer has criticised the grind path as partly obstructed - which is true, in as much as the two axle supports are at 90° from each other, as visible in the photo above, but this also results in much more contained stresses and less flex at the axle; I’d rather have that than a good view of the burrs insides!).

                    There are 3 ball bearings: one on each axle support, and one in the knob. The axle is machined, not stamped, and it has a 6 mm minimum diameter (10 mm at the bearing supports), with nicely machined chamfers for stress-relief. The inner burr runs ‘flat’ to within 0.05 mm, and it has an axial run-out of +/- 0.05 mm when running without load (both measured by me using a dial indicator on the outside edge of the burr). I could not figure out a way of measuring run-out under load… if you do, please let me know!

                    The adjustment range is about 100 clicks (1 complete turn of 60 clicks, and a further 42 clicks on my grinder). This is equivalent to a vertical travel for the inside burr of 2.98 mm, i.e. ~30 micrometres per click, about 3 times the amount per click of a Kinu M47 - however, the variation of particle size distribution with a conical burr is not linear with vertical travel, so… don’t assume that it’s not fine enough (or viceversa!); experimentation is the only way to know.

                    The attention to detail in the design is excellent - there are o-rings everywhere: sealing the grounds cup, on the locking nut (to ease removal, I guess), on the bottom of the ground cup so that the grinder is more stable, on the magnetic catches of the handle to avoid marking the aluminium body

                    The overall manufacturing quality is excellent, all parts are machined rather than cast-finished (even the locking nut at the bottom of the shaft, which has a fairly complex shape) and fit together accurately; small details such as the burr loading spring being machined flat at the ends are appreciable. The only ‘oddities’ are:

                    1. A few markings/bubbles on the removable axle support; although it has been machined after casting, it seems that the casting was slightly pitted but still accepted by Mazzer QC.

                    2. An odd blemish on the inside of the grounds cup - possibly left by the induction or laser welding of the steel ring? Nope - nothing to do with welding; I have just discovered that the cup is made in 3 pieces, the bottom is screwed to the top, and the steel ring is just inserted between the two. Be aware that a fair amount of ground coffee finds its way ‘between’ the pieces (at least when grinding Turkish), so it’s worth taking the cup apart every now and then and dusting it off.

                    3. The o-ring on the bottom of the grounds cup is a bit loose, and tends to fall out especially in warm weather.

                    None of these affect performance or usability, or are easily visible; nevertheless given the premium price of the product I am slightly disappointed by them.

                    Next steps
                    I’m waiting for some decent coffee to arrive to experiment with espresso; I’ll report back on what I find (and also a ‘back-to-back’ comparison with the Ceado). I don’t do filter brews, but if a UK-based member of the forum wants to experiment with those, I’d be more than happy to ship the Omega to them for a couple of weeks of testing.

                    Final (?) edit: the hex drive on the axle is 7.5 mm. This is not a super-easy thing to find, which makes me think Mazzer are subtly trying to discourage people from using the Omega with a drill…

                      Wow, now THAT is one helluva review. Hats off to Mazzer for using less plastic in the packing. Great job with the pics and a massive thanks for the effort you put in. This grinder was my first choice but it’s not going to Be available in Australia for a few months yet so as mentioned in another post I picked up a second hand Helor 106 with 71mm Mazzer Robur burrs.

                      It sounds like it takes quite a while to grind your 18 to 20 grams and I guess that’s because they delivered the soft grind option to you. The Helor is incredibly easy to grind because it has 4 gears but really I would have preferred just 2 gears so I could grind with half the number of revolutions. I may live to be thankful for the fact that there are 4 gears however because my wrist arthritis is not getting better with age (what a shock).