dutchy101 The Niche always tends to be the benchmark whenever grinders are being compared, which I suppose is testament to how well regarded it is.
I think that is also interesting, the comparisons of grinders 3 or 4 times the price. ……what the Niche has done is made single dosing, easy grind adjustment in a compact kitchen friendly form, accessible. This never used to be the case and at its price point, it’s very difficult to better. A big reason for their success.
LMSC In a way they have, but the manufacturers have been very, very lazy when it comes to prosumer grinders. Only now are they waking up to the fact that there is a huge market out there (for the right grinders)…much larger and potentially more lucrative for them, than the one for commercial grinders.
I remember many years ago Ceado expressing complete surprise (actually didn’t believe me) that any prosumer/home user would ever buy an E37S……ridiculous really. 🤣 So they didn’t even promote it to prosumers.
DavecUK - I don’t know when you told them that, but there are a few prosumer users who actually have E37S grinders in their homes. I know a few of them, some in this forum, actually. In fact, it’s one of the “friendliest” for the home in terms of overall size given the size of the burrs. I always wanted one, but it was very expensive. But then, the Niche came… and the rest is history.
To be clear: at the time, due to the lack of option in the home market, prosumer users had no choice and had to resort to commercial grinders to use at home if they wanted anything other than a Mignon, Ascaso Mini or Vario.
What I do not understand is why a company like Mignon wouldn’t bother creating something from scratch. A short cut is never going to work. It’s just not sustainable.
I hope Niche upgrades the Burrs and design in the conical space and also bring their flat version. I would love to see them cleaning out this market by keep raising the bar even higher leaving every one far behind.
LMSC - Very good point, which I keep asking myself the same questions. Any of those traditional brands could smash Niche if they wanted to. But in my opinion, they failed, miserably by trying to adapt their designs rather than think it through from the ground up and from a prosumer perspective using their kit in a home environment.
Surely 2 future Niches, one with 83mm flat burr and one with 83mm conical burr, sub-£1000 would just own the sub 3K market?
-Mac for sure! What I was trying to say is the traditional brands rather than Niche (who?) had the opportunity to smash it - but failed miserably. Now Niche has established itself as a trusty brand for the home market with excellent customer services, there’s no reason for consumers to look anywhere else for products at that price range. They got it right.
I am not sure it is that simple. I do not think it is just a case of other manufacturers recycling designs out of laziness and Niche nailing it off the bat.
I am no engineer but I suspect that making a good zero retention conical burr grinder at a competitive price point is inherently easier than building a flat burr grinder with the same characteristics. Due to the way that coffee channels through conical burrs you have gravity on your side and I suspect less surface area for coffee to hide in the grind chamber, not to mention you can use a significantly lower wattage (and cheaper) motor that also means (all things being equal) less noise and less vibrations to control.
I would be very surprised if Niche is not working on something exciting but are they going to solve all the difficulties that come with a flat burrs set when the might of companies like Eureka and Ceado are yet to totally nail it? Tough to say.
BlackCatCoffee all the difficulties that come with a flat burrs set when the might of companies like Eureka and Ceado are yet to totally nail it? Tough to say.
That’s a fair point, it might be why the companies making flat burr grinders are struggling….
DavecUK Perhaps it highlights the fact, that the big traditional companies do not really understand the issues and will simply wait and see if someone else can nail it then try and copy
BlackCatCoffee Fair!
I totally understand what you are saying. You know about coffee and equipments more than I would ever know.
We are not saying “lazy” but I am still surprised that biggies like Mignon took a short cut than designing from scratch. Yes, it is lovely, sturdy and makes a great espresso. But, …
I own and develop products in technology space. It’s not a joke to design something from scratch as I understand what it takes to bring a successful product.
It’s possible Mignon knew how it will be received and sold; perhaps it is a teaser, which I really hope it is. I am sure, Niche is working on their flat grinder and it may not completely solve what the ever ails the flat burr segment. But, I doubt if they will release something that they don’t like!
Edit :
Btw, thx for sending CP and the half decaf orders to the girls. They fell in love with your CP; they can’t wait to open the half decaf. I plan to send them a couple of more tasters from you. I will then let them decide what they want as a subscription from you guys. Thx
Frothbewithyou For me, the unique selling point of the Niche was faff-free high quality single dosing straight out of the box. I believe one of its main strengths is that it was designed from the ground up by a seriously competent industrial designer primarily for the domestic specialty coffee enthusiast…..and the burrs - not that terribly long ago owning a Mazzer Kony at home was considered a pretty good bet for bragging rights….lol!
Its taking a lot of mucking about with my own bigger flat (83mm) to achieve anything remotely near that ease of use……you know, puff, brush, puff, restart…..fine coffee mist over the benchtop..no trouble really, lol lol!!!
I’ve been using the Eureka for a few months now. I haven’t had any clogging issues. I don’t use the bellows.
The vibration is biggest issue for me. I’ll try to fix it later on. Silicone list or something like that.
Next batches are coming with a different clump crusher. I’ll contact the retailer here I purchased my grinder and ask if they can get the new crusher for me.
Workflow wise The Niche is better but I prefer the cups I get with the Eureka.
Currently thinking of upgrading my old mk1 mignon.
Looking at the Niche and the DF64 as I want to single dose, flipping between espresso and aeropress, although I could realistically keep the mignon for aeropress and keep the new grinder exclusively for espresso.
The eureka single dose hadn’t really crossed my mind.
I tend to like lighter roasts but thinking the niche would be easiest from a workflow and dialling in due to the larger dial.
Worthwhile upgrade?
I took the plunge last week and purchased the Oro. I already have a Eureka (Zenith 65e), but wanted something smaller and less wasteful. I liked the look of the Niche, but due to a combination of availability and my wife preferring the aesthetic of the Oro for some reason (this is often a major deciding factor where my coffee kit is concerned and means I no longer have to house the grinder in another room!), I went for the Oro.
It’s early days, but I’m really enjoying it so far. The bellows seem to make little to no difference , but other than the very first few shots I used it for, the grind retention is within the tolerance of my expectations (typically 0.1 - 0.2g) and often zero. It’s considerably quieter and faster than the Zenith and seems much less clumpy (in fact, I’ve not noticed any noticeable clumping). Grind quality is lovely and fluffy.
From my perspective, I’ll probably always hanker over a Niche (and I’m also not sure how I’m going to deal with the odd occasion when I want to grind a whole bag of coffee if I get rid of the Zenith, although that wouldn’t be any different with the Niche, I suppose), but I’m satisfied enough with the Oro for the time being. I’m used to the rediculously fiddly changes if I fancy anything other than Espresso, so that wasn’t a deal breaker. Overall, any compromise is acceptable to me and it appears a solid bit of kit.
Conical burrs lend thereselves to less retention, they need less effort and a slower motor, should niche want a flat thats a totally different beast and something they really dont need.
They still sell out nowz so why offer a second product?
Ive never used a ek43 but presumably having burrs on the side allow gravity to pull the grind path down.
Re the weber key, i nearly bought one. So glad i didnt.
Ive seen a few vids now with people not being happy, the weber thread got locked on hb too, anyone who approaches weber seem to be greated with a negative attitude to, which is a bit poo.
Im not sold on variable grinding speeds, perhaps theres a visual difference if you monitor the shot with a decent, but id guess theres hardly anything to it taste wise, just more a gimmick to make us spend more or make a product stand out from the crowd.
Fwiw ive yet to stall my major haha, but that thing could turn an engine 🤪
Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -
Cuprajake Conical burrs lend thereselves to less retention
Not sure this is necessarily true.
