LMSC You may try 1 or 2C higher I pulled at 92/98.

Yep - that worked nicely, thank you! Acid tang gone.
I still prefer their Twilight blend… or even my usual Illy, as long as it’s fresh. I’m irredeemable, I know.

    DavecUK Bacterial contamination, .. it won’t last more than 3 days.

    I was filtering 12 to 16 l per day from an osmo zero.

    So do you finish the 12-16 L in 3 days? Sorry for silly question. I think better to be safe than sorry for healthy related question.

    Cuprajake

    10g potassium bicarbonate to 1litre rodi/distilled water

    Then 10g of the concentration to 1litre of rodi/distilled water for the machine.

    Is these two sentences the same meaning?

    DavecUK

    , I don’t believe potassium carbonate scales….but over time the service boiler concentration will rise, at which point you should refresh the water once it gets above a level you are comfortable with.

    I planned to start with a simple route of only dosing potassium carbonate but I am confused here. What is service boiler concentration? Refresh means draining all the water out then replace with new water?

            Knluk Is these two sentences the same meaning?

            No - first step produces a litre of concentrate (so you can measure fairly accurately how much bicarbonate you are adding, instead of going into fractions of a milligramme). The second step dilutes the concentrate to what is actually needed for brewing.

            Knluk What is service boiler concentration? Refresh means draining all the water out then replace with new water?

            As you draw steam from the service boiler, whatever salts are in the boiler water get progressively more concentrated (the steam contains no salts) - thus they can scale and/or corrode the boiler. Refreshing is draining and replacing with new water - ideally, for a service boiler, with a low concentration of anything!

                  CoyoteOldMan

                  • MgSO4 · 7 H2O (Epsom salts) - 148 mg/l

                  • KHCO3 (potassium bicarbonate) - 80 mg/l

                  • NaCl (table salt) - 25 mg/l

                  May I summarise my understanding? So

                  • MgSO4 · 7 H2O (Epsom salts) - 148 mg/l is for better taste. And the Magnesium can help avoiding scaling?
                  • KHCO3 (potassium bicarbonate) - 80 mg/l - for avoid scaling and if use sodium bicarbonate can also enhance taste?
                  • NaCl (table salt) - 25 mg/l - for better taste

                  So, if I use potassium bicarbonate only, it should be free from scaling.

                  Alternatively, if I am using sodium carbonate, I should add the other two for scale avoidance and also enhancing taste.

                  CoyoteOldMan

                  For me, for me. I also drain a cup of water in the evening, but inevitably over a few weeks the water does end up at (or just over) scaling point in the steam boiler, as it gets replaced with tank (brew) water. Which is why a ‘reload’ with pure water should help.

                  Sorry I am really confused here. Does steam boiler has a scaling point? How can I check the point? Reload with pure water? Does it need to be mineralised pure water?

                        CoyoteOldMan No - first step produces a litre of concentrate (so you can measure fairly accurately how much bicarbonate you are adding, instead of going into fractions of a milligramme). The second step dilutes the concentrate to what is actually needed for brewing.

                        If I prepare 1L of mineralised water with the correct contents of minerals, why do I need to dilute it before using it for brewing? I feel myself very slow in understanding this. But I will get it when I use the system. :)

                            The steam is evaporation.

                            As you evaporate water to get steam the water left gets stronger, and stronger.

                            The steam is what you would make distilled water from if you let it cool. So all the bad stuff is left in the boiler. Do this enough with bad water you get scale.

                            Re the sodium carbonate. Don’t use that it’s too strong. That was just my question

                            Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

                            Knluk If I prepare 1L of mineralised water with the correct contents of minerals, why do I need to dilute it before using it for brewing?

                            If we take sodium bicarbonate as an example, to get the correct level of alkalinity you want 67mg / litre of zero water. This is a tiny amount and almost impossible to weigh out accurately. Making up 5 litres with 320mg is easier to do. Alternatively you can make up a concentrate to use

                              Knluk KHCO3 (potassium bicarbonate) - 80 mg/l - for avoid scaling and if use sodium bicarbonate can also enhance taste?

                              The purpose of potassium (or sodium) bicarbonate is not to “avoid scaling”. Water for brewing coffee needs some alkalinity to taste good (and some alkaline buffer will also help with corrosion - pure water can become acidic by absorbing CO2 from air). However, potassium or sodium bicarbonate by itself will not create scale.

                              Knluk the Magnesium can help avoiding scaling

                              Quite the opposite, unfortunately. Magnesium and calcium salts are likely to cause scale. Magnesium (carbonate) is more benign than calcium - partly because it doesn’t tend to ‘stick to itself’ as much as calcium carbonate does, and partly because it creates less amount of scale to start with. However, water containing (bi)carbonate ions and calcium or magnesium ions in quantities generally believed to be ‘good’ for making coffee will scale.

                              Knluk Does steam boiler has a scaling point? How can I check the point? Reload with pure water? Does it need to be mineralised pure water?

                              Dissolved minerals in a steam/service boiler will tend to get more concentrated over time, as steam is extracted but none of the minerals/salts in the water. If you use the spreadsheet that @Rob1 has created, it has a page to help you predict ‘when’ it will scale, depending on your water characteristics and usage, but the TL;DR message is “it will scale if you use calcium and/or magnesium”.

                              It is a good practice to dilute the minerals by discharging some mineral-rich water regularly (every day) and replacing it with (at least) brewing water. Even better is to empty the boiler regularly, and re-fill it with de-mineralised water.

                                    Knluk the 12-16 L in 3 days?

                                    A day.

                                    We are two mostly. We also draw about 10-12L a day - coffee, tea, smoothies, drinking and cooking!

                                      Thanks again all! I did not expect the water is much more complicated than coffee. I have a bit more understanding on the water now.

                                      So, I think my workflow should be:

                                      Hard water > water softener > softened water > zerowater > prepare mineral concentrate and add to the water > use the mineralised water within 3 days (While keep some water in the zerowater between use (btw do you use this water?))

                                      Re mineral:

                                      Option 1: make it simple

                                      • KHCO3 (potassium bicarbonate) - 80 mg/l

                                      Option 2: for best taste esp for dark roast

                                      • MgSO4 · 7 H2O (Epsom salts) - 148 mg/l

                                      • KHCO3 (potassium bicarbonate) - 80 mg/l

                                      • NaCl (table salt) - 25 mg/l

                                      For both options, there is no scaling issue but need to replace all water in the boiler from time to time when the mineral concentration built up. May I ask what should be the interval here? Say every month?

                                      Also, before I get a lever machine, for Robot, I plan to use zerowater after I finished the volvic I stock up. As there is not boiler in Robot (no scaling issue), should i add the following for taste enhancing?

                                      • MgSO4 · 7 H2O (Epsom salts) - 148 mg/l

                                      • NaCl (table salt) - 25 mg/l

                                        Knluk Option 1: make it simple

                                        Option 3, keep it very simple:

                                        • 80mg/L or 100mg/L (I use the latter, my tastebuds cannot taste the difference)
                                        • Drain the steam (aka service) boiler every 2 months. When you do, keep the drained water. Let it cool down to room temperature and measure the TDS. Adjust the interval accordingly.

                                          also worth noting, potassium and sodiums will give different tds readings i believe

                                          Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

                                          Knluk So, I think my workflow should be:

                                          Hard water > water softener > softened water > zerowater > prepare mineral concentrate and add to the water > use the mineralised water within 3 days (While keep some water in the zerowater between use (btw do you use this water?))

                                          If you are planning to use a Zero jug, there is no benefit in softening the water before de-ionising it. Unlike an RO membrane, the resin won’t ‘care’ whether it captures a sodium or a calcium atom.

                                          Yes, I would use the water from the jug, if you keep cycling through it every couple of days. Not if it’s been sitting there for a week!

                                          Knluk As there is not boiler in Robot (no scaling issue), should i add the following for taste enhancing?

                                          Water alkalinity plays an important role in taste, so I would add the bicarbonate in the Robot as well.

                                                CoyoteOldMan there is no benefit in softening the water before de-ionising it.

                                                No difference for the filter life too?

                                                I have this 3M filter too but forgot the last time we changed the filter :(((

                                                    Knluk No difference for the filter life too?

                                                    Nope. At least, not if your softener is a typical ion-exchange softener.

                                                      Please 🙏 help to confirm the following is okay🙏🙏🙏

                                                      Epsom salt

                                                      potassium bicarbonate

                                                      Table salt: (is Himalayan salt okay)

                                                      Epsom salt and bicarb - perfectly fine. Himalayan salt is also probably fine (it contains a bit of iron, hence the pink colouring, but so little that I don’t think it will affect the taste of anything), but it’s flipping expensive.

                                                      https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/gol-ui/product/salt-pepper/sainsburys-cooking-salt--polybag-15kg <– this is £1/kg
                                                      https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/gol-ui/product/bigger-packs-208331-44/fudco-himalayan-pink-salt-500g <– this is £6.30/kg

                                                        OK so the need to use the water within 3 days is completely new to me. I’ve been storing remineralised Zerowater for my Minima for up to a few weeks at a time before using it in my Minima. I take it this is a bad idea? I would have thought it would be fine since it is all being boiled via the brew - boiler and steam boiler?

                                                          No salt. Avoid chloride. If you want sodium but want to keep it at scaa recommended 10mg/l use both Potassium and Sodium bicarb to get your alkalinity to 40mg/l - you can go higher or lower with alkalinity if you want but 40 is a good start. No need for hardness, but if you really want to try it and think it makes enough of a different to complicate maintenance do what you want…you have a robot to test on to make it easier. Magnesium isn’t any better than Calcium for scaling.