Ah man hard choice!
Looking for next level espresso machine
From an ease of use perspective (quick warm up, intuitive user interface with simple to interpret feedback, temperature adjustment, and routine maintenance/clean up, etc.), as well as flexibility (pre infusion pressure and duration, temperature range, etc.), the Evo Leva is hard to beat… it offers all the benefits of a traditional lever profile, while allowing to play around it… and there are many valuable customisation options available at purchase (from colours to steam/hot water location and wand design)
The choice of aftermarket accessories is more limited than with 58mm machines, but the basics are well covered.
Reliability has been good (considering that the first Evos are only around 18 month old), and I’m not sure it is a differentiating factor (acknowledging that you may have more trained service technicians in the field than for the other brands)
The LMLM stands out to me as the one to avoid. Overpriced and old tech. Evo Leva would be the one for me.
No machine will produce good microfoam, that’s all down to your technique. They’re all capable of it.
Another choice for next generafion lever machine is the Nurri L-type Leva…
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I’ve just switched from a Bianca to a LMLM.
I don’t really understand the disdain for the Linea Mini. Almost feels frowned upon to buy one. It’s expensive, sure, but as with any other luxury purchase - cars, bikes, Swiss watches, furniture, sometimes the spec sheet isn’t the only selling point.
Firstly, I can’t fault the Bianca. It’s a pretty much flawless machine that in my opinion is one of the nicest looking E61s. Mine was faultless in the year I had it and if I had the money/space I’d have both.
However, what I can say now having owned both-
Bianca build quality is great, LMLM is better. It feels more robust with heavier duty metal parts, especially the case. In a home setting I’m not sure how much this really matters but it feels more solid.
Steam power is very good on the Bianca but another level on the LM. First time I used the Linea steam the milk went all over the floor… go figure.
Hard to disagree the Bianca is the ‘better’ machine though, which is why I’m not referring to my LM as an ‘upgrade’.
Ernie1 Can I ask you a question. This comes from someone who has owned a GS3 auto. If a proficient barista presented you with three cups of coffee as a blind taste test, would you be able to pick out the one made on the LMLM consistently?
At the end of the day, the machine you own simply makes coffee from whatever you put in. You are responsible for the bean, the grind level, the puck prep etc etc. If you have a really expensive commercial oven and put some stewing steak into it, no matter how many buttons you press you do not get a fillet steak out!
The pleasure of owning a machine is quite simply that….ownership. Long may you enjoy your machine matey!
PS I kept my GS3 4 weeks!
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Ernie1 I think La Marzocco machines are incredibly well made and will make coffee no better or worse than any other well set up 2K ish prosumer machine on a point and shoot basis. Sometimes La Marzocco can overcomplicate things e.g. some group mechanisms, leva x etc , which increases cost, sometimes massively, for little or no gain. The LMLM fortunately doesn’t suffer from that.
Parts and La Marzocco approved servicing are expensive (think BMW Vs Ford). But they are very high quality machines designed to last a lifetime.
Personal opinion only, compared to the interiors the cases are relatively crude and unattractive, something I think they should improve considering their price point.
Buying one is not about the latest greatest tech, sheer performance, or low total cost of ownership….The best analogy I can give is my Christopher Ward SH21diver watch. 5 day automatic movement, day date only, Chronometer certified to around 1.3s per day. I could arguably get a watch costing less than £50 which would be far more accurate with more, and better fuctions, but it wouldn’t be the same!
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Ernie1 I suspect the feeling of disdain is a counter to the elevated status the LMLM holds, and the perception that they’ll give better coffee than a cheaper machine.
Personally I think they look gorgeous, and would make a great addition to any kitchen. They’re also clearly very well made, and able to make loads of back to back coffees (it is a commercial unit after all). At the end of the day, it comes down to what someone is after. I like to tinker, and usually am only making a single coffee, so the large boilers would be an inefficient use of energy, and for the price I’d want more control of the brewing variables, such as more advanced profiling.
Everyone’s money is their own to spend though, and while the coffee might not taste better, if you enjoy using it and it brings a smile to your face everyone you look at it, a LMLM may well be good value for you.
If only you could get the features of a Decent in a LMLM body, then you really would be on for a winner (at least for me).
I’m looking forward to seeing some pictures of yours and how you get on with it.
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dfk41 an I ask you a question. This comes from someone who has owned a GS3 auto. If a proficient barista presented you with three cups of coffee as a blind taste test, would you be able to pick out the one made on the LMLM consistently?
Can’t you ask the same question about any machine above a certain level? Or, with a car analogy, isn’t it the same as asking someone if, once they are at their destination, they can consistently say which car got them there?
Don’t get me wrong - my coffee machine (and car) is at the lower end (at least around here) of what can make good coffee, and I have no desire to upgrade for luxury. However, if someone can drive an expensive car when driving a cheaper car can get them to the same destination, then why would it be different for a coffee machine?
Doram - equally, to dfk’s point, if we all make a cup of coffee with some box standard dark roasts with a LMLM, a V Evo, a MaraX, an Elizabeth, and a Bianca, would we consistently be able to tell where the beverage comes from? I doubt it.
For me, It’s all due to the pleasure of owning a bit of kit we are proud of and enjoy every day. The rest is relative.
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Fair points and I appreciate the perspectives.
@dfk41 100% would not be able to distinguish the different coffees. I’d happily admit even after two days of ownership I’m not even yet making coffee as good as I had on the Bianca.
I’m wary of using too many motorbike analogies as I talk about bikes a lot on a coffee forum but this is all coming from someone who’s owned a number of Harleys. Bikes that in a similar vain make absolutely no sense on paper. Hugely overpriced, comparatively slow, terrible handling, marmite looks, expensive to service. But I had a blast riding and owning them over the years.
It’s definitely the joy of ownership. I don’t have Instagram or a YouTube channel or anything so I’ve got nobody to impress other than me!
With that said, I’ll gladly take some pictures on Monday. I’m waiting for the bottomless PF holder to arrive as Bella Barista had sold out.
On a related note, I went to Bella Barista to collect it and what a great place! Really friendly staff and an impressive selection of stuff! This is the fourth machine I’ve bought from them and they’ve always been incredible.
Needless to say I won’t be going for the £700 walnut accent kit…
@DavecUK that’s a very nice watch you have. I’ve been slightly tempted to start a watch thread here but given how catastrophically expensive a rabbit hole that can be, I thought it might be risky!
And yet today I’m wearing my 20 year old, fake steel worn of the plastic lugs, scratched plastic watch glass…super accurate Casio solar atomic 🤣
Total cost of ownership £2 per annum…up to now.
The suggestion that espressos made with all reasonably competent machines taste the same goes against the perception that lever machines make “softer” coffees and that profiling machines allow one to get the best out of difficult-to-extract light roasts.
The car analogy of all cars getting their occupants to the same destination only holds true if the road is smooth. There are places where only a 4×4 will get you to your destination at all.
After a certain budget you getting great coffees.
It’s what floats your boat and how big your wallet/ego is after that.
I’m not a brand snob by any means but some things are worth their price some things not. That goes with any hobby
I work with cars for a living and the price of some cars now eye watering. Some worth it some not.
Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -
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mathof2 I was talking about standard machines, not advanced levers or pressure profiling.
E.g I believe an Evo shot to be astounding, great thermal control and the je ne quois of the LSM lever group. Hard to match, impossible to beat. If my Alpha was still working, I’d be using it.
DavecUK What would it take to get it working again? A new group, I guess, as you said the old one was leaky. Anything else?
All good points, gents. I started with a cheap Breville machine and moved up to a Rocket Cellini eight years ago for espresso making. Right now, the Rocket is getting repaired with new gaskets and a new pump. I am using a cheap $10 phin filter to brew espresso Vietnamese style and the coffee tastes fantastic! That said, it does not make lattes or fancy just to get me by until I get another machine and my Rocket back and repaired. I have a cheap Flair lever machine arriving today to see if lever machines are for me or not. That said, if I like levers, will look at custom order a new ACS Vesuvius Evo Leva machine direct from Italy. ACS has been responsive and patient with my questions. Cost would be on par with a high end semi auto machine but the videos make it look so amazing! Also considering ECM Synchronika as I like the looks and gauges above so easy to view and joystick controls plus build quality looks solid. Both would keep me under 4k and on par with La Marzocco machine quality I think. Yes, luxury goods like high end brands cost. I have a BMW and love it but it is not cheap to buy and own. Same with custom guitars and watches.
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CoyoteOldMan I need an entire new machine really. It was thrown together from scrap, even the lever arm is bent and the case has no bottom, plus all standard Vesuvius reinforcement was removed!
However to get it going I need to fix the leak inside, don’t know where from, replace the lower half of the group because the heating element within the group, was never fitted correctly and one of them failed. This would also fix the leaking group, because mine has The old valve system that is worn out anyway.
The worst problem is the machine is not compartmentalized like yours and was built in such a way that any repair requires complete disassembly of the machine, even a vacuum breaker change!
I don’t even have the correct pressurestat to go higher than 1.7 pi.
Plus it’s not something I want to photo, video or help people from as it no longer reacts like a production machine. It really was just a proof of concept.