Hello! I'm Lance Hedrick and I'd like to address some things!

Ernie1 Sprometheus did a video a while back comparing flats and conicals - his findings are similar to yours but not completely. He’s comparing a Mazzer Mini to a Niche with a medium roast coffee.

I was always under the impression the difference between flats and conicals are the way the grind beans, so flats produce more even slices whilst conicals produce more flakes and taste is the result of the geometry. - I could be totally wrong though 😅

whinmoor85

Good to know I’m not the only one who thinks flats create the choc/caramel richness and muted acidity.

Now there’s two of us!

Ernie1 Whilst a previous study by the SCAE was carried out on brewed coffee only, they found the same (but, only after participants were aware of what the difference in samples was, prior to that no one was able to tell the difference blind).

MWJB Do you happen to have a link to that study, would be interesting to see the methodology and maybe repeat it

InfamousTuba

MWJB

http://magnatune.com/p/grinder_report.pdf I found the paper it is based on.

It is an interesting test but I would like to see it redone with more modern grinders and a larger variety of roasts. This report came out just at the advent of EK43’s being used and higher extraction being pushed, the largest flat burr was a 75mm mythos which is generally only used for espresso, at least now. I would like to see SSP burrs for the flats, larger conicals, even the new kafatek shurikones, and hybrid burrs like the DRM burrs. A range of roasts levels and coffees would be good as well because nordic light roasts are not used by everyone.

It does make for an interesting read and I am surprised there aren’t more similar tests with data such as this, I would like to try and replicate something like this and see what data I can find

Problem is if they did it today and got the same result it would render £4k grinders pointless 😂😂😂

InfamousTuba So, it’s not conicals vs flats that’s the question, it’s conicals & most flats vs a very, very tiny sample of esoteric grinders that have only appeared in the last few years (subsequently, rendering the question at the time of asking as moot?).

I tend to think as people seek to ascertain a solid & repeatable difference between flat & conical, the goalposts for testing will just continue to move until the test has no real world value.

EK had been in use for over 25years, at least for 4 of those (prior to this study) by Scott Rao, who has since said he reckons his EK was not typical and 90% of them don’t give similar results. He has also reported high extractions from conical hand & electric grinders (not that I have been able to replicate these).

I just want more robust testing on the hypothesis, a very small sample size of tests on flats versus conicals is not enough data for me. I also think that people who are spending thousands on these esoteric grinders would like some more data on what separates these grinders from others even if the data shows their isn’t a difference.

I don’t think the test has to change much at all I just think it needs repeating by others, like with other scientific research it should be repeated under the same and different conditions.

Scott Rao did say that 90% of EKs don’t come aligned well out of the box, but he went on to say that baristas have been aligning their own EKs to produce the same results he achieved. They are used in the vast majority of speciality cafes and a large number of roasteries it would be strange to completely overlook them

lancehedrick does grind speed make that much difference. Surely a burr set has an optimal rotation speed or a sweet spot?

Not sure on the new grinder, don’t like the fafing. Do you have a pic of the power supply for it

Cuprajake The charger is like a laptop brick

DavecUK Similar thing with the Flair 58. Not really a problem if you can hide it away but not ideal for a kitchen counter top.

I had an SPK38 for review and the power brick was old style laptop size, not large, but I made absolutely saw it and how it would look on the counter. I did 3 videos, espresso, filter and internals. I made absolutely sure it was on the counter all the time….so people could look over my shoulder and envision what they might want to hide away on their counter.