So many variables. Dose and headroom will matter. The coffee itself will matter. Grind. And, are you using the new IMS basket, or the stock basket? The stock basket has some nice sloping so the puck drops out really well for me.

    dndrich The funny thing is, I moved from my IMS basket to the standard Elizabeth double basket - and that gave me a worse puck than in the IMS basket 😅😅

      Well, part of the fun is that coffee is a dynamic product. We aim for consistency, but all we really want is a way to make nice cups. Your machine can do that and more! I’m using a very nice medium roast from Verve in Santa Cruz, CA. Very predictable classic flavor for coffee and espresso. Nice arabica blend.

        dndrich You are right, we only need a tasty cup. Though I can’t help but want perfection in every aspect of the process, OCD maybe? 😅😅

        Have made 4 cups today, today being the second day I’ve made coffee with it, and 1 last night. Out of the 5 total, only 1 was “dodgy” tasting. The other 4 were perfectly drinkable, not amazing by any means but good. In that regard I cannot complain - but I can’t help myself, I have a “need” to know why something is happening (or not happening).

        Tried 2 different coffee beans in it so far. Will try a different 3rd coffee bean tomorrow. I think the pre-infusion is definitely helping to get a fair bit of sweetness from the beans.

        Also the first time I’ve tried steaming milk, a lot to learn.

          It’s also much more pleasant to make coffee in the Elizabeth, than it was in the Gaggia. How is that possible, the process is the same? I wasn’t making any milk drinks in the Gaggia so no steaming at all.

          I found the Gaggia slightly stressful (perhaps too strong a word) but in this it’s a pleasure.

            What would be the deciding factor in choosing a steam pressure pre-infusion, vs a non steam pressure bloom phase for the pre-infusion?

              DrForinor It’s also much more pleasant to make coffee in the Elizabeth, than it was in the Gaggia. How is that possible

              I’ve said it many times, the more expensive machines are just much easier to use, and much more pleasurable to use. I think it’s because they have a level of refinement the cheaper machines obviously don’t have. The ratio of successful to unsuccessful coffees also seems to go up, of course there is a point of diminishing returns.

              DrForinor What would be the deciding factor in choosing a steam pressure pre-infusion, vs a non steam pressure bloom

              This is part of the joy of owning a more advanced machine, you can actually experiment. For that particular coffee you have no one really knows, but the fun is in trying stuff out to see whether it improves things in the cup or not.

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                    DrForinor whichever method gives the better tasting coffee. You have two buttons on the Elizabeth which can be programmed. I have one set for steam and one set for bloom phase. I try them both when using a new bean or batch of beans and decide which I prefer.

                    Lelit Elizabeth, Niche Zero

                    V60 with Drip Assist, Clever Dripper, Knock Feld47

                    Aeropress, Knock Aergrind

                        DavecUK You are so right!! I tightened up my grind (because yesterday’s grind was a little too coarse for the steam pressured pre-infusion) and then last second I decided to try the non steam pressured bloom phase (not taking into account I had ground finer). My timer for that button was set to 50 seconds, I got 16.7g out (for 16.5g in) and it was still drinkable!!!!! That’s amazing!! Just mind blowing coming from the Gaggia! I’m in love with this machine!

                          Yorkie_Al How do you set one for steam and the other for bloom? I thought the only way was to switch the steam boiler off?

                            Can anyone please tell me why I have water in this shot? The only other time I saw this was when I tried the bloom phase, and this was the bloom phase again. Have I not tightened the PF enough?

                            16.5g in, 36.3g out in 35 sec, including 6 sec water in, 6 sec bloom.

                              umm, id say not locked in far enough,

                              Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

                                Cuprajake Yeh that was my initial guess. But I have water coming through the left spout also?

                                Is it best to remove that “lock” sticker?

                                  prob just a drip, id bet they do a silicone cafelat seal for it, more robust,

                                  id leave or remove the sticker all together,

                                  Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

                                  DrForinor The water from the left spout has actually run down from outside the portafilter and dropped into the left spout. You have noticed it because it’s there before the coffee starts to flow. You can see the drops continuing to add themselves to the stream of coffee on the left.

                                  I’d definitely remove the sticker…they can tarnish and on E61 machines I have seen the chrome actually pitted under a well blackened hot sticker

                                  Apparently cafelat gaskets do work really well on Liz, although I have never used one…I intend to pick some up from Lelit when I am next in Brescia, hopefully in the spring.

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                                    I did ask BB if they have a Cafelat silicone seal but he wasn’t sure. I can tighten it further but then I’m able to go past that sticker point.

                                      DrForinor I did ask BB if they have a Cafelat silicone seal but he wasn’t sure. I can tighten it further but then I’m able to go past that sticker point.

                                      Going past the sticker point is 1000% fine to do. It should be tight, or it will leak.

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                                        @DrForinor, did you make sure there were no coffee grinds on the rim of the portafilter before locking it in, as these can also cause small leaks. Probably just needs locking tighter though.

                                          hornbyben This is something that I do check as it annoys me. So without a doubt nothing of significance. But yes I’ll be sure to tighten it properly. I will upgrade the seal though.

                                            Regarding shots that include pre-infusion, what are the general rules to follow re timing? Ie, without pre-infusion it’s generally good ballpark figure for around 30 seconds (for argument sake), how does it work with pre-infusion?

                                            I’ve tried a couple of coffees with non steam pressured pre-infusion and I really enjoyed it so I want to get better using this method. Six seconds water, six seconds no water, then the pressure starts. How do I account for those inital 12 seconds versus a standard time?