DrForinor It’s also much more pleasant to make coffee in the Elizabeth, than it was in the Gaggia. How is that possible

I’ve said it many times, the more expensive machines are just much easier to use, and much more pleasurable to use. I think it’s because they have a level of refinement the cheaper machines obviously don’t have. The ratio of successful to unsuccessful coffees also seems to go up, of course there is a point of diminishing returns.

DrForinor What would be the deciding factor in choosing a steam pressure pre-infusion, vs a non steam pressure bloom

This is part of the joy of owning a more advanced machine, you can actually experiment. For that particular coffee you have no one really knows, but the fun is in trying stuff out to see whether it improves things in the cup or not.

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        DrForinor whichever method gives the better tasting coffee. You have two buttons on the Elizabeth which can be programmed. I have one set for steam and one set for bloom phase. I try them both when using a new bean or batch of beans and decide which I prefer.

        Lelit Elizabeth, Niche Zero

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        Aeropress, Knock Aergrind

            DavecUK You are so right!! I tightened up my grind (because yesterday’s grind was a little too coarse for the steam pressured pre-infusion) and then last second I decided to try the non steam pressured bloom phase (not taking into account I had ground finer). My timer for that button was set to 50 seconds, I got 16.7g out (for 16.5g in) and it was still drinkable!!!!! That’s amazing!! Just mind blowing coming from the Gaggia! I’m in love with this machine!

              Yorkie_Al How do you set one for steam and the other for bloom? I thought the only way was to switch the steam boiler off?

                Can anyone please tell me why I have water in this shot? The only other time I saw this was when I tried the bloom phase, and this was the bloom phase again. Have I not tightened the PF enough?

                16.5g in, 36.3g out in 35 sec, including 6 sec water in, 6 sec bloom.

                  umm, id say not locked in far enough,

                  Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

                    Cuprajake Yeh that was my initial guess. But I have water coming through the left spout also?

                    Is it best to remove that “lock” sticker?

                      prob just a drip, id bet they do a silicone cafelat seal for it, more robust,

                      id leave or remove the sticker all together,

                      Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

                      DrForinor The water from the left spout has actually run down from outside the portafilter and dropped into the left spout. You have noticed it because it’s there before the coffee starts to flow. You can see the drops continuing to add themselves to the stream of coffee on the left.

                      I’d definitely remove the sticker…they can tarnish and on E61 machines I have seen the chrome actually pitted under a well blackened hot sticker

                      Apparently cafelat gaskets do work really well on Liz, although I have never used one…I intend to pick some up from Lelit when I am next in Brescia, hopefully in the spring.

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                        I did ask BB if they have a Cafelat silicone seal but he wasn’t sure. I can tighten it further but then I’m able to go past that sticker point.

                          DrForinor I did ask BB if they have a Cafelat silicone seal but he wasn’t sure. I can tighten it further but then I’m able to go past that sticker point.

                          Going past the sticker point is 1000% fine to do. It should be tight, or it will leak.

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                            @DrForinor, did you make sure there were no coffee grinds on the rim of the portafilter before locking it in, as these can also cause small leaks. Probably just needs locking tighter though.

                              hornbyben This is something that I do check as it annoys me. So without a doubt nothing of significance. But yes I’ll be sure to tighten it properly. I will upgrade the seal though.

                                Regarding shots that include pre-infusion, what are the general rules to follow re timing? Ie, without pre-infusion it’s generally good ballpark figure for around 30 seconds (for argument sake), how does it work with pre-infusion?

                                I’ve tried a couple of coffees with non steam pressured pre-infusion and I really enjoyed it so I want to get better using this method. Six seconds water, six seconds no water, then the pressure starts. How do I account for those inital 12 seconds versus a standard time?

                                  Just add it in, no hard and fast rule, you’ll soon get to know what you like, and your machine

                                  Like if I did a 12s infusion on my leva it would taste horrid haha

                                  Sounds like you’re doing great and having fun too😁👍👍

                                  Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

                                    DrForinor Six seconds water, six seconds no water, then the pressure starts. How do I account for those inital 12 seconds versus a standard time?

                                    If we imagine a standard shot (no bloom phase taking 28s. Adding preinfusion of 12 seconds I would try 34s total time from pressing the shot button, and see how it was. In effect the 12s bloom phase counting as only 6 seconds. I would work my way up and down from there.

                                    If I found it over extracted, I might try 31s or under extracted 39s…

                                    I would tend to count those 12 seconds as 3 seconds off the shot time and work the total shot time from there.

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                                        Cuprajake Honestly I love my Lizzy!!! I regret buying a bean to cup (I bought a second one only a few months ago, after my first one died) and I regret buying the Gaggia, I should have went straight to this.

                                        The coffee machine at work (bean to cup) I normally am happy with it’s coffee. Today, first day back after the festive holidays (and after a few days of using my Liz) I was disappointingly underwhelmed at how mediocre the coffee tasted (I always only use my own beans so I know the beans were not an issue).

                                        I am thoroughly enjoying my machine. My initial apprehension in getting a machine this expensive was because I had a hard time understanding how I would cope - given I found making coffee in the Gaggia a tad stressful.

                                        However, the Lizzy has completely won me over! In the Gaggia I hadn’t dreamt of steaming milk because making espresso in it was enough to keep my brain busy, but I’ve already steamed milk 3 times in the Liz (for someone who doesn’t drink milk based coffees) and improved each time.

                                        DavecUK Excellent, gives me a good base to work with, thanks. :)

                                              DrForinor I was disappointingly underwhelmed at how mediocre the coffee tasted

                                              Have you been to your cousin’s yet? That would be the litmus test for me… (just based on your initial post here)

                                                  CoyoteOldMan He is a couple of hours drive away from me, so I don’t go often. Though you are completely right, that would be the test for me also. Even if it tastes the same, I’m happy as I can still grow with my Liz and have plenty of options to change my coffee output taste - his machine is still a lot more limited.

                                                  One of the posts in this thread pointed out that a Sage will still limit what I am able to do, and I wholeheartedly agree.