New kickstarter campaign for TIMEMORE Sculptor

Inspector adjustment thread pitch certainly looks like an issue for dialling in for espresso given how close to zero he was and how he mentions using faster rpm to slow down the shot.

FadedFrontiers I noticed that too. I don’t understand why you can move the zero point to give more adjustment. In my mind why isn’t the zero point actually zero! Are they worried about touching burrs?

Either way i’m still debating backing the 78s as I want a flat burr alongside my niche.

I’d wait for real world reviews, yes you may pay more but at least you won’t waste money if it’s not what you want.

Think the coffee world has gone quite nuts, even in the few years I’ve been in it I’ve seen so much change, and esp new products, every one being the next best thing…

What are they likely to cost normally when there in shops

Cuprajake Yes i agree everything seems to be the next best thing, same in most industries. Marketing and hype plays a big role.

For comparison the 078 is ~£412 on kickstarter, sigma coffee want £595 for it. Quite a big difference of £183 but that could change slight with exchange rates but a rough idea.

Will you get UK support and warranty with that though?

LMSC The 078s looks interesting and tempting. I am puzzled why an established company would choose the kickstarter route.

As am I, although I guess it abrogates all risk and responsibility for:

• quality
• non delivery
• ever lengthening timescales
• consumer protection
• other consumer rights e.g. warranty, fitness for purpose etc..
• the final specification of product that actually gets delivered
• no requirement to raise capital or take loans (effectively borrowing from the consumer. I won’t say customers, because on Kickstarter you are not actually buying anything.

Cuprajake warranty yes, UK warranty it seems not. Timemore say they will send parts and provide “remote guidance” but do plan to setup offline warranty points.

DavecUK They could have still sold them as pre-orders on their web site in batches with long dated delivery time lines.

They are saying delivery is 100% guaranteed and import taxes paid for this campaign.

DavecUK As am I, although I guess it abrogates all risk and responsibility for:

quality
non delivery
ever lengthening timescales
consumer protection
other consumer rights e.g. warranty, fitness for purpose etc..
the final specification of product that actually gets delivered
no requirement to raise capital or take loans (effectively borrowing from the consumer. I won’t say customers, because on Kickstarter you are not actually buying anything.

All of that, but Kickstarter is also a marketing methodology all on it’s own. By that I mean it may be done that way explicitly to get the kind of discussion that’s been happening, for months, prior to actual delivery. In theory, Kickstarter is about funding, but some Kickstarts, from companies that are easily able to afford development costs, deonstrate it’s not the only viable motivation.

As for me, it would take something TRULY exceptional to get me to go Kickstart (or similar platforms). I doubt there s anything in coffee equipment that would do it, and certainly not at the several hundred £/$ price level. Sub-£50? Maybe. And no, in case anyone thinks I mean something like this at that price. I mean something worth, arguably, something in the £50-£100 bracket, at £50.

Quite a few factors would go into me buying anything at the £500-ish level, and reputation of the supplier, support and warrany are definitely high up the list. So is a series of good or exceptional reviews from trustworthy sources. Price, and especially saving a modest percentage, doesn’t feature very high up. Personally, for something like this, if it’s a choice of waiting for release, reviews, UK supply etc, and paying full price for it, I’d do that over Kickstarter every time.

As for grinders, I guess I haven’t gone as far down the rabbithole as some, but the Niche is good enough for me. Unless it breaks, I doubt I’ll ever bother changing it. I get ccffee, be it espresso or V60/Clever, that I enjoy, and that’s good enough. Could I get “better” with a better grinder? Probably. But then, better espresso machine too? Also probably. Will I bother? Not a prayer. I’ve got a (by espresso standards) pretty modest, but not ultra budget, setup and it gives me results I enjoy drinking. Job done. 😀

Lance had a live insta feed up tonight where he received all the models from Timemore - (just before he did a feed in youtube trying out the meticulous).

The 078 seems better built than the 064 which it should as a its 200 dollars more. But the 064s could be a good buy if you just want to grind in a nest package. Seems the prices will rise on kickstarter by about 30 dollars in the next 5 days. Its tempting especially if I did not want to splurge on a df83 for 3 times as much !

LMSC raising a couple of million almost right off the bat, is one good reason. There are massive potential downsides for the consumers unfortunately although I’ve backed a few I’ve also gotten dudded on two smaller campaigns. You pays your money you takes your chances…

LMSC its certainly a different model. i was suprised the Weber went that way with the Key grinder. but that was another rip roaring success and every one got a pretty good quality grinder in the end.

One of my duds was a portable espresso machine, not too many dollars down the gurgler (AU$200?) and I had seen a working prototype but they got hit with covid and slowly died. Not “hey sorry about this”, just disappeared. But frankly, with all the abuse that was hurtled their way I’m not too surpised they didn’t front up. They certainly should have but alas they couldn’t hack the vitrole I guess.

The other dud was an out and out rip off. Again not a massive amount of coin (probably another $200) but it still hurt more than the first one. This item was a portable air compressor. The word on the street is that it was set up right from the get to go to raise a few hundered thousand and then disappear. I know it may be problematic for the crowd funding model, but I love it if they could figure out a way to hold people to account somehow.

Well I have backed the 064s - and shall wait on the detailed reviews.. but it’s about as cheap a grinder as I can find which should do espresso well and give options to change burrs if I feel that inclined. The upside I suppose is that you can already buy the 078 in certain regions.. and timemore are far more known and established than a brand new firm.

I decided I did not need to I spend 700 odd on a Df83 - esp as I have not bought a full machine yet :)

dont know if mentioned but the grinder kyle reviewed was a 78 non s with the 78s burrs fitted,

if it makes an difference im not sure, he didnt mention in the vid, but it was pulled up in the comments

Same with the machines sent to lance they sent a 078 and a set of the s burrs,

I think the main difference is the slight stepping on the non s versions. Don’t think anyone who has had the preproduction machine has gotten an actual 078s - just the standard machine with extra burrs.

tompoland One of my duds was a portable espresso machine, not too many dollars down the gurgler (AU$200?) and I had seen a working prototype but they got hit with covid and slowly died. ….

The other dud was an out and out rip off. Again not a massive amount of coin (probably another $200) but it still hurt more than the first one.

Yeah, that’s kinda why I don’t fancy risking Kickstarter type projects. It’s not losing the money in the event the project goes under, as such. It’s the annoyance, especially if conned. That, would wind me right the bleep up. So if it’s more than a “shrug, whatever” sort of sum, I’d rather just wait and pay more at the retail stage …. like with the Niche. I was tempted at Kickstarter stage but I guess in the end, I care more about not winding myself up than I do about supporting risky projects. And if I am going to support risky projects (and do, from time to time) it’ll be as a risky investment with expectation of a financial return, not a discount on a product.

Not that I’m criticising those that do back Kickstarters. Not in the slightest. Seriously, not in any way. I can see a satisfaction from doing it when it goes right. it’s a mindset thing, and just not for me. I do often track interesting ones though, just to see how they go. As with your experience, it’s a mixed bag, and for very different reasons.

CoffeePhilE Not that I’m criticising those that do back Kickstarters. Not in the slightest. Seriously, not in any way. I can see a satisfaction from doing it when it goes right. it’s a mindset thing, and just not for me. I do often track interesting ones though, just to see how they go. As with your experience, it’s a mixed bag, and for very different reasons.

I think that’s absolutely the correct view and I feel exactly the same way.

What I don’t like bout the new approach is well formed companies are doing it.

Weber was a real shock. I didn’t like that way of it being done, but I suppose why spend your money when you can spend someone else

CoffeePhilE So if it’s more than a “shrug, whatever” sort of sum, I’d rather just wait and pay more at the retail stage

Excellent point. Changes the whole risk reward equation.

Definitrly established companies are taking advanrgae of the kickstarter to get a sweet deal foe themselves - locked in purchasers who ahve already paid, a certain idea of how many units are needed before manufacturingstarts, kicking up a lot of hype over the product. At least when they do it, there is a lot higher probability the project won’t disappear without a trace with your money unlike the case with the projects from new start ups or people we have never heard of before.

What I find interesting is that if timemore can produce the 78s at $499 inclusive of customs and shipping anywhere in the world, it puts into perspective what could be the actual cost to weber and lagom of their made in Taiwan or made in China grinders…

It will all be about the margin they want to attain… no different to the true cost of apple products manufactured in China. Or even watches made in Switzerland… the true cost of a Rolex bares no resemblance to the retail price 😂

chlorox and is the Kickstarter price a loss leader to get the marketing buzz as the real retail price will be much higher?

So lets be honest though - these companies are probably not that large - and I doubt have have huge coffers of resources behind them. Manufacturing at these small scales ( this is not apple or nvidia here - just a niche product for coffee ppl) will be costly and probably a easy way to end up with endless unsold stock if they create the wrong product.

So kickstarter is a way to get x items sold - which means they can plan to build X thousand items - and then schedule a build run with whichever factories are contracted for the work.

Weber had the right idea - a 2k grinder if the market did not want it then the kickstarter would not have been funded.

Its certainly a “safer” way for the firms as correctly the risk is passed to us the early backers who want a discount.

At least with all the hype/videos produced on youtube we do get a chance to eyeball the product - and then we can make out own decision whether to back a project - or not and wait for a retail product. I am happy to back a milk frother or the 064s - but not something like meticulous….

MattH 100% agree. Risk vs reward for sure. Anything expensive I would personally wait and pay that little bit more.

[unknown] hey not sure if you have an opinion on this but im trying to figure out if I should get the 078s…currently have a stock DF64…watched Kyle Roswell’s video and was conflicted when he said he thought the 64 sculptor was better for milk drinks which I primarily make, but thought the 78 had to be better overall…now wondering if getting ssp burrs for my DF64 would be better than getting the 078s?

jeffreywcf hey not sure if you have an opinion on this but im trying to figure out if I should get the 078s…currently have a stock DF64…watched Kyle Roswell’s video and was conflicted when he said he thought the 64 sculptor was better for milk drinks which I primarily make, but thought the 78 had to be better overall…now wondering if getting ssp burrs for my DF64 would be better than getting the 078s?

Regarding popcorning, this is how the maker made the grinder to be used, I made a video to show:

dont see an issue with popcorning, most grinders do it, even more so when single dosing them

DenisS thanks Denis

I am wondering if it makes a lot of difference if you would cold start it. On my grinder (MM with ssp hu) I did not feel there’s any difference in the cup hot vs cold start.

Wow this thread has moved a lot since i last checked it.

I am in for the 078s which seems to be getting reviewed the best and best value of the bunch (perhaps unsurprisingly).

Fwiw my view here is that if the spec sheet performs even roughly as expected (and as it appears to based on the few reviews we do now have), I can accept a few quirks if they come out of the woodwork. The idea that I can pick up a grinder with higher burr surface area that a mazzer major and a large variable RPM brushless motor for <£1000, let alone 500 is phenomenal. I definitely still have 1 foot firmly in the too good to be true camp but it feels worth a stab.

(Yes I am definitely starting to sound like a shill)