Evening, thought I would post a response - lots of useful info in the thread to ponder over.

wilburpan I have seen and considered the 9barista, its a lovely looking bit of kit - though my only issue of course is the lack of steamed milk :) - and tbh for the money I would rather save that towards my first machine.

So from browsing the forum the topic of water comes up quite a but - and living in Kent I am in hard water hell. I do have a water softener plumbed into the house (though you are not meant to drink the softened water - and we have a separate tap which just has a active carbon filter… which probably needs changing)

Therefore its something I will need to consider/plan for or at least make sure I have a good cleaning regime.

I have spent way to long browsing youtube etc looking at various reviews/videos about lots of machines. The Bianca does seem to sit in a nice sweet spot of functionality/looks. I did also see the Profitec P600 (which in the Uk seem to come with the flow controls prefitted) - thought I understand its a different pump setup to the Bianca but seems to have a slightly better build.

Stylewise I serious loved the La Marzocco Linea Mini/Micro - and then lost all interest when I googled the price - outside my budget - but love the aethestic.

Besides the research/browsing there has been a constant flow of moka pot coffees - its become a bit of a experiment trying the different coffees I have (some Rave, Ki Coffee - local roaster - and have some Django on the way) and trying to figure out the best way to grind them with the Omega. Not sure I have made much progress - but I am trying to keep the volume of water and coffee constant (160/18) and then adjust the grind size to see it turns out.

TBH I will not lie but the coffee at least to my tastebuds currently all seems quite similar and I have been caught out by not grabbing the pot before the last dregs get pulled.

Tonights attempt will be with a Rave Swiss Decaf - thought that would be better for the evenings :)

With regards to grind settings - is there a sort of graded start point for different roasts ?

ie. Dark roasts usually a bit coarser than a medium, does using decaff require something different - or is it totally coffee bean/roast specific.

For the Mazzer the grind level in the manual has a range of

4-7 Espresso

7-9 Moka

9-11 Filter

11-13 French Press

From some videos of the mazzer in action they seem to end up in the very low end of the ranges - so I have been experimenting between 6-7 - trying to find a sweet spot so its not bitter or overdone.

Now one thing I have learnt is that milk fixes almost anything - so if it is bitter etc then its not a total loss.

With regards to the Mazzer Omega hand grinder - though this is all I have owned - its a lovely well engineered piece.

Very easy to clean out - does not lose your settings - feels good in the hand - and its not a burden to use - though I am not doing very fine espresso grinds.

I do get some retention around the burr exit - and a dusting will sit in the cup after tipping out. I assume this is where the light spray of water on the beans before grinding may help ?

Lastly I have been working on my milk frothing using the machine from amazon on the lowest setting so it basically warms up the milk so I can use the handheld to work it into some thing not latte art ready - but it does mix in smoothly without too thick a layer of foam… so progress there 😁

Cheers

Matt

      MattH a dusting will sit in the cup after tipping out. I assume this is where the light spray of water on the beans before grinding may help

      Yes, but you then need to dry the grinder. I’d rather give it a couple of sharp taps, which on mine seem to dislodge pretty much everything - certainly with less than 0.1 grams left in the grinder.

        MattH wilburpan I have seen and considered the 9barista, its a lovely looking bit of kit - though my only issue of course is the lack of steamed milk :) - and tbh for the money I would rather save that towards my first machine.

        I did think about that before posting, and decided to go for it since you said you already had a milk frother. 😄

        I’ll take one more shot, since you mentioned having hard water and the cleanup and maintenance of an espresso machine. (I’ll also add that in my opinion, a 9Barista is very much an espresso machine, as it does what conventional espresso machines can do.) I have very hard water where I live as well. Descaling a 9Barista is trivially easy. To do this, I dissolve 0.5g of citric acid in 120 ml of water, put that in the 9Barista, and put it on the heat. One extraction later, and the 9Barista is clean as a whistle. Rinse everything, do one more extraction with fresh water, and you’re done.

            wilburpan Funny enough after writing the above I have spent a good time watching various vids on YouTube about the 9barista again…..

              10 days later

              A quick update.. still trying various coffees,grinds and amounts with the moka pot. Besides that lots of browsing on various espresso machines.. though from a price/features point of view the Bianca seems to hit the sweetspot.

              The 9Barista remains a interesting idea - I just wish it could be a quicker process to complete more than one shot.

              I have bought something new to try which is the nanfoamer. The milk frother I am using does not incorporate the milk enough - and it does not seem to get that hot in the process.

              So now I am heating the milk in the microwave and then using the nanofoamer to froth.

              I have only tried it a couple of times - the superfine screen seems to work well - and the motor makes short work of the process. I need to still work out the best timings as I did get carried away last night and had a large pillow of foam by the end.

              It does seem to work better than the standard wire head hand frothers (but it does cost 5 times as much).

              I have also noticed that stock of espresso machines ‘ Flair etc seem in short supply in the UK - Bella Barista has loads out of stock.. not sure I can find a Flair for sale in the UK (unless you want the nano press). Is this a regular occurrence at this time of year before new models/restocks arrive? Luckily I am not ready to shop… yet

              Cheers

              Matt

                MattH The 9Barista remains a interesting idea - I just wish it could be a quicker process to complete more than one shot.

                How quickly do you want to pull a second shot? It takes me about 6 minutes from pouring the first espresso to pouring a second one.

                  That sounds pretty quick.. I assume you cool the lower chamber under the tap and then release the pressure before separating and refilling ?

                    MattH Right — I cool the 9Barista under cold water, and streamline the process by starting the water heating process for the second shot, and then grinding and putting the top on while the water is heating up.

                    I once timed myself doing back-to-back shots with the 9Barista. I wasn’t rushing to set a record — I wanted to see what the real-world experience would be.

                    After pouring the first espresso, I started my stopwatch. I went to the sink and ran cold water over the 9Barista until it was cool enough to take apart the three sections. I released the safety valve, rinsed out the bottom and middle sections, and dried them off with a towel. I filled the bottom reservoir with water, screwed the middle section on, put it on the stove, and turned the heat on.

                    While the water for the second espresso was heating up, I popped the basket out of the top section, took the puck screen out, and knocked the puck out. I cleaned the top part, the basket, and the puck screen, and dried them off with a towel.

                    Then I measured out the coffee beans for the second shot and ground them, I filled the basket, tamped, put the puck screen on, and attached the top part to the middle and bottom sections that were on the stove.

                    At this point my stopwatch was at 5 minutes 24 seconds. I was close to when the water would be boiling, as I could see bubbles under the top of the middle section as I was attaching the top section on. (This doesn’t always happen. Since I did this timed run, I have a new grinder that’s faster — 10 seconds instead of 35 seconds for grinding — and so I can get the top section on quicker. This won’t affect the total time for the back-to-back shot, just this part of the process.)

                    Espresso started coming out 17 seconds later. The extraction time was 29 seconds.

                    So the total time from starting to cool off the 9Barista right after pouring the first shot to finishing the extraction for the second shot was 6 minutes 10 seconds.

                    Given how close the water was to boiling when I attached the top section to the middle and bottom sections, my sense is that the main bottleneck from one shot to the next is the time it takes for the water to heat up. So washing out the middle and bottom sections first, and then getting a headstart on heating the water for the second shot is a really good move.

                    In my experience, the workflow for doing back-to-back shots is pretty straightforward, and if you do this on a regular basis, I think anyone can get it down to 6-½ minutes or less.

                      If you can collect from Gosport I have very reliable Sage Barista Express you could have for £200. I’m emigrating to Spain tomorrow night and I’m buying a Bianca when I arrive.

                        -Mac thanks for the offer - but I am not rushing into any purchases.

                        Good luck with move abroad!

                          So continuing on… currently I am working through Rave Italian and Signature blends - along with a Rave Swiss Decaff.

                          I do have a couple of other brands coffee which I picked up on one of the offers mentioned here (which for now has totally evaded me)

                          In my research which seems to involve every coffee related youtube video - and a few (alot) of the machine based threads here.. I am also leaning towards the smaller simpler end of machine.

                          Though the Bianca would cover everything you could every need - I am now also looking at the simpler models.

                          So both the Mara X and Profitec 400 are also possibilities. I wonder if I need all the bells and whistles and instead just need a simple workflow to make good coffee (and anything to stop me continously tinkering)

                          Whilst I deliberate (and what for stock to hit the UK again) I am also looking at improving my moka pots - I have been looking to buy a E&B Lab moka competition filter - which basically shrinks the holes in the filter. It costs about 14-20 euros for the 3 cup version - but try as I might if I want to buy one here it will cost about £40…

                          The joys of Brexit.. I did find it on a spanish site but they wanted 25 euros postage for a filter… very sad. Might have to wait until I am next on holiday in Europe to pick oneup :)

                            MattH I wonder if I need all the bells and whistles and instead just need a simple workflow to make good coffee (and anything to stop me continously tinkering)

                            You can make good coffee with a V60 which costs about £10. So you ask: why bother with fancy machines? It depends what you want. With the MaraX, you can make excellent coffee, same with the Pro-400. The Bianca has a quiet and rotary pump - which doesn’t impact the quality of the coffee. But it has a flow control valve, and allows you to have a fine control of the brew temperature and steam temperature, along with some pre-infusion features.

                            I don’t remember which machine you have, but upgrading is a very complex decision. I myself found slight overwhelming when upgraded from my Gaggia Classic.

                            Ultimately, find what you want and plan ahead. The worst possible outcome is that you to for the Pro-400 and then start wondering if, for a given coffee, you’d have been better off with some of the features of the Bianca.

                                MattH - not sure whereabouts you are, but there’s a V Evo listed for £1,600. It’s a big machine… Bargain of the century.

                                EDIT: I just checked the advert again (9 hours later) and the post has been deleted. 🤷

                                    MattH IF you are interested, there are members with an Evo nearer to you (me for example - near Oxford). You’d be welcome to see the machine and try it - if it ‘works’ you can then think about a trip to Newcastle…

                                      It’s worth pointing out the joys of ownership factor and other aspects which don’t necessarily impact the quality of the coffee and can factor differently for different people.

                                      Aesthetics being the obvious one.

                                      The rotary pump is also mentioned above. There’s a significant difference in volume, some people could literally not care less, for some they couldn’t imagine going back to a vibration pump.

                                      Maintenance. An E61 machine needs regular minor disassembly and lubrication. It’s not a big job by any means but it’s a job nonetheless.

                                      Dual-boiler. This is a bit more of a functional one. If you drink a lot of milk drinks I’d personally say it’s almost imperative that you go dual boiler for efficiency and temperature stability when steaming milk.

                                      It’s an expensive purchase and there are arguably more factors than just ‘great coffee’ which most of the available machines are ultimately capable of.

                                      It’s how I ended up with a Linea Mini. On paper it does less than the Bianca I had which is an incredibly capable endgame machine but I enjoy owning and using the Linea more.

                                        Ernie1 Totally agree hence why I am not rushing this - and probably why I bought the Mazzer Omega - not the cheapest hand grinder but the fit, finish and construction give me pleasure when using it. It’s easy to dismantle and there is not fiddling around with resetting to zero etc once its been cleaned.

                                        The same points stand for me around hifi - its got to sound great (which most hifi does) but its got to look great as its part of my room. (Interesting I have realised that my hifi is Italian as well :) )

                                        From my browsing the Linea mini/micro are visually right up my street - in fact I did click eagerly when I saw Lance’s video on the micro - and then baulked a bit at the cost.

                                        But if I had the budget it would be up there on the list from how it looks and is built (and in terms of the micro size wise for my kitchen it would be perfect) Not sure I would ever look at the large lever machines purely because of the space needed. Think I would have to have a dedicated coffee island to manage something like that.

                                        Reading the thread on the Nirva - thats another beautiful machine (and I love the colours and side panel options).

                                        Maybe I will have a win on the lotto and then I would not need to think too hard :)

                                        Thanks

                                        Matt

                                          I totally agree, fit and finish is hugely important for me when spending a lot of money.

                                          I’m going to make a controversial point.

                                          Personally, and I say this having owned one for a year or so, I don’t think the the Bianca is as well made as it could be. There’s some quite thin gauge steel, some very sharp edges (I sliced my finger pretty bad when cleaning it) and the steam/hot water tap handles weren’t drilled dead centre on mine so they kind of wobbled loose when opening.

                                          However, it’s a feature packed machine so despite the above I’d say it’s still worth the price compared to others.

                                          In terms of build quality and finish, the Linea Mini is in another league entirely, it’s not even close. Even the stainless portafilter (vs chromed brass) feels quality.

                                          Obviously though this has zero impact on the coffee output and people regularly point out how expensive it is for what you get and I can’t disagree.

                                          The Micra makes some compromises that would be a deal breaker for me. Plastic parts on the Portafilter and a tiny working space. For the difference in cost the Micra only seems to make sense if space is at a premium.

                                          When you get closer to a decision, I’d recommend visiting a showroom to see machines in person if at all possible.