DrForinor Possibly, but I’m joining the rank of the confused. 😉

I would have expected the IMS 14-18 gram basked to be marked “IMS 14 - 18 grams”, which is the tapered one. And I would not have expected an IMS basket to be marked “La Marzocco”… but if I understand you correctly, the “original” basket is the tapered one marked IMS 14-18, and the “La Marzocco” one is the ‘new’ straight one, which is causing you trouble.

I’m not surprised that they extract differently - the hole numbers and diameters seem to be quite different (I calculated 630 holes for the “original” and 820 for the “new”, but that’s based on the holes being distributed uniformly within a dodecagon). It would be interesting to see the ‘real’ specs in terms of open areas, but I suspect the ‘new’ basket has quite a higher flow than the original, so I would expect you need to grind quite a bit finer. However, if you grind ‘too fine’ you’ll just get bitterness.

Have you tried decreasing the dose in the ‘old’ basket? And tinkering with grind there? I am afraid that if you change too many variables at once (basket - and thus flow and shape, and thus thickness of the puck, going thinner; dose - decreasing again the thickness) it will be difficult to understand what is actually driving the poor result.

All this said, I can’t understand how a basket with a smaller or very similar volume (there isn’t much difference in height between the clip ridge and the bottom of the baskets, but the old one is quite tapered, thus smaller volume) has a higher recommended dose… it may be that the ‘La Marzocco’ basket is simply the ‘wrong’ basket for the Lelit.

      Dusk Do IMS definitely make the La Marzocco baskets, is it not VST?

      I was also under the impression it was VST for La Marzocco.

      If Lelit include IMS baskets with the Elizabeth then I think what you have is an IMS and VST.

      What capacity is marked on the LM basket? And what actual dose are you using?

      With most of the roasts I use I have to dose my 17g LM basket to about 18-19 otherwise it’s slop city on top of the puck and I don’t get as consistently enjoyable results.

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            Dusk When I bought the 14g IMS basket, it came as the La Marzocco 14g basket but it’s the first “good” basket I owned so I just refer to it as the IMS basket.

            Yes the basket that came with my Elizabeth says “by IMS 14-18g” on it.

            CoyoteOldMan The one marked “IMS 14-18g” (the tapered one) is the standard basket that arrived with the Elizabeth. But yes correct, the tapered one is the one that’s easy to work with using 16.5g. The more straight one, marked La Marzocco, is the more “precision” basket, which I have been using 14g in that has been giving me trouble.

            Ernie1 Both are definitely IMS. The one that came with the Elizabeth has IMS marked on it. The La Marzocco was an IMS one I purchased that wasn’t advertised as a “precision basket” (but was as good as a precision basket, just cheaper. it was cheaper because it didn’t arrive with a certificate but it went through the same production process, just not the same checks process at the end for the certificate).

            The LM is marked 14g and that’s exactly what I’m using. The one that came with the Elizabeth has 14-18g marked on it and I’m using 16.5g as per advice from other Elizabeth users.

                  I’ve always swapped out for the comp baskets. Easier to use consistent dose too

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                    Cuprajake I’m not having the same experience as you then. Perhaps it’s because I’m using a smaller basket, the 14g is trickier to dial in?

                    In fact one of the reasons I moved to the 14g LM basket is because I thought I would get better results. But the standard basket (tapered one) seems to give me better results, and give me those results with ease in comparison.

                      Yup 14g is a smaller dose really.

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                      I do have another IMS basket (straight walls, precision but not certified) that’s 17g. Try that instead of the standard supplied one?

                      Not that it really matters in terms of the quality of your cup but to clear up confusion, when you say IMS do you mean competition basket?

                      IMS and VST are companies who make baskets, so since VST make La Marzocco baskets it won’t be an IMS, but it will be a competition basket if that makes sense.

                      Anyway,

                      If the LM basket is marked 14g, try dosing 15 or 16g and checking the results. I’ve almost always had to updose baskets to get good results. That might be to do with the machines I’ve used and the headroom above the puck but if I dose too low I don’t get great results.

                        Ernie1 Not that it really matters in terms of the quality of your cup but to clear up confusion, when you say IMS do you mean competition basket?

                        I bought it as an IMS basket, but there was no mention of it being a competition basket

                        Ernie1 IMS and VST are companies who make baskets, so since VST make La Marzocco baskets it won’t be an IMS, but it will be a competition basket if that makes sense

                        I have no idea in regards to this, but I purchased an IMS basket and what arrived is what I have shown 🙂

                        Ernie1 I’ve almost always had to updose baskets to get good results.

                        But when people say they are using 18g in an 18g VST, they’re not updosing? Does it affect smaller dosing baskets more?

                              If I were to use the LM 17g basket (rather than the lower dose LM 14g), would I have an easier time as it’s a bigger dose? Or will it still be more difficult than the supplied Elizabeth 14-18g basket?

                                DrForinor Advertising often doesn’t match reality… 😉 (and the advertiser may not actually know better)

                                But in this case it doesn’t really make any difference, other than VST baskets have a reputation for being more difficult to work with than IMS.

                                DrForinor Or will it still be more difficult than the supplied Elizabeth 14-18g basket?

                                Only one way to find out… The thing that worries me a bit is that you want to bring the dose down from ‘what works’ in the Lelit/IMS basket; I don’t think using the 17 grams LM will help in that respect. I would try first to dose up (say 16, then try with 15 if 16 works) in the 14 grams LM basket, and see if you get consistently good results.

                                      On the basis you seem to prefer the Lelit basket and it’s an IMS one (so decent quality), you could just stick with it.

                                        As @CoyoteOldMan says, VST baskets can be less forgiving, meaning your grind consistency and puck prep need to be perfect otherwise your extractions will highlight any imperfections.

                                        Weirdly I couldn’t get on with VST baskets in the past but have had no problem with the La Marzocco ones. I wonder if the LM ones aren’t quite the same as an aftermarket VST.

                                        Again, not that it really matters in this case.

                                        It’s hard to give a one size fits all answer as there’s a few variables here (regarding the actual dose). Firstly coffee density across beans and roast levels. You’ll notice 18g of one coffee will take up more of the basket than 18g of a different coffee.

                                        Secondly is basket size.

                                        Thirdly (which is a product of the above two) is headroom. Too much headroom and your extractions will be thrown off as the rate of saturation will be different due to water having to fill that space before reaching the puck. Too little and you can fracture the puck (and make a mess of your shower screen).

                                        I can’t say this is exclusively true because I’ve not tried every coffee/machine/basket/dose combination but I’ve never had good results under-dosing a basket, and 99% of my good results have been somewhere around 18-19g in, 36-38g out in a basket designed to hold 17 or 18g.

                                        If you do want to dose less, then use a smaller basket. But I’d always aim to dose above the basket size and not below.

                                          Dusk Yes true.

                                          Referring back to the discussion earlier where my understanding is that a taper in a basket is not as good as a basket without a taper, would you still stick with the standard Lelit basket?

                                          I’m going through all of this (what seems to be unnecessary) hassle as I’d like to stick with equipment that is of higher quality and try to improve my coffee game to match. Or is that not a great idea? Is it better to improve my skills with perhaps lesser quality items, and then move up?

                                              CoyoteOldMan The thing that worries me a bit is that you want to bring the dose down from ‘what works’ in the Lelit/IMS basket;

                                              I’m using 16.5g in the Lelit basket, if I use the 17g basket using 17g, I’m not really changing the dose much?