Ernie1 Not that it really matters in terms of the quality of your cup but to clear up confusion, when you say IMS do you mean competition basket?

I bought it as an IMS basket, but there was no mention of it being a competition basket

Ernie1 IMS and VST are companies who make baskets, so since VST make La Marzocco baskets it won’t be an IMS, but it will be a competition basket if that makes sense

I have no idea in regards to this, but I purchased an IMS basket and what arrived is what I have shown 🙂

Ernie1 I’ve almost always had to updose baskets to get good results.

But when people say they are using 18g in an 18g VST, they’re not updosing? Does it affect smaller dosing baskets more?

        If I were to use the LM 17g basket (rather than the lower dose LM 14g), would I have an easier time as it’s a bigger dose? Or will it still be more difficult than the supplied Elizabeth 14-18g basket?

          DrForinor Advertising often doesn’t match reality… 😉 (and the advertiser may not actually know better)

          But in this case it doesn’t really make any difference, other than VST baskets have a reputation for being more difficult to work with than IMS.

          DrForinor Or will it still be more difficult than the supplied Elizabeth 14-18g basket?

          Only one way to find out… The thing that worries me a bit is that you want to bring the dose down from ‘what works’ in the Lelit/IMS basket; I don’t think using the 17 grams LM will help in that respect. I would try first to dose up (say 16, then try with 15 if 16 works) in the 14 grams LM basket, and see if you get consistently good results.

                On the basis you seem to prefer the Lelit basket and it’s an IMS one (so decent quality), you could just stick with it.

                  As @CoyoteOldMan says, VST baskets can be less forgiving, meaning your grind consistency and puck prep need to be perfect otherwise your extractions will highlight any imperfections.

                  Weirdly I couldn’t get on with VST baskets in the past but have had no problem with the La Marzocco ones. I wonder if the LM ones aren’t quite the same as an aftermarket VST.

                  Again, not that it really matters in this case.

                  It’s hard to give a one size fits all answer as there’s a few variables here (regarding the actual dose). Firstly coffee density across beans and roast levels. You’ll notice 18g of one coffee will take up more of the basket than 18g of a different coffee.

                  Secondly is basket size.

                  Thirdly (which is a product of the above two) is headroom. Too much headroom and your extractions will be thrown off as the rate of saturation will be different due to water having to fill that space before reaching the puck. Too little and you can fracture the puck (and make a mess of your shower screen).

                  I can’t say this is exclusively true because I’ve not tried every coffee/machine/basket/dose combination but I’ve never had good results under-dosing a basket, and 99% of my good results have been somewhere around 18-19g in, 36-38g out in a basket designed to hold 17 or 18g.

                  If you do want to dose less, then use a smaller basket. But I’d always aim to dose above the basket size and not below.

                    Dusk Yes true.

                    Referring back to the discussion earlier where my understanding is that a taper in a basket is not as good as a basket without a taper, would you still stick with the standard Lelit basket?

                    I’m going through all of this (what seems to be unnecessary) hassle as I’d like to stick with equipment that is of higher quality and try to improve my coffee game to match. Or is that not a great idea? Is it better to improve my skills with perhaps lesser quality items, and then move up?

                        CoyoteOldMan The thing that worries me a bit is that you want to bring the dose down from ‘what works’ in the Lelit/IMS basket;

                        I’m using 16.5g in the Lelit basket, if I use the 17g basket using 17g, I’m not really changing the dose much?

                            DrForinor Or is that not a great idea? Is it better to improve my skills with perhaps lesser quality items, and then move up?

                            Assuming the goal is great coffee, use whatever means necessary. I know a certain YouTuber said the first thing to do with a new machine is chuck out the stock basket in favour of a VST, but it’s one thing for a world champ barista to say that and another for an amateur. I’d wager that suggestion has led to more frustration than it has to better coffee.

                            To use a terrible analogy, give Rembrandt a set of WHSmith brushes and he’d have painted you a masterpiece regardless. Hand a set of the finest sable brushes to a beginner and the painting won’t improve.

                            Master the tools you have first, then seek out new equipment when there’s a need for it. Often people find that actually there’s no need for new equipment after all.

                                Ernie1 Dude, that made perfect sense. I have the fancy baskets if I need them, until then I can enjoy my coffee in the standard basket. Case solved.

                                My issue with dialling in actually makes a whole lot more sense now! 🤦🏽‍♂️😅

                                    DrForinor a taper in a basket is not as good as a basket without a taper

                                    It’s not so much that it’s not “as good” - it’s (usually!) more difficult to get consistently good results with.

                                    DrForinor Is it better to improve my skills with perhaps lesser quality items, and then move up?

                                    It all depends on what you want to achieve, but as Ernie1 said, use what you need to get you where you want.

                                    DrForinor if I use the 17g basket using 17g, I’m not really changing the dose much?

                                    No, you aren’t, but if you want to bring your caffeine intake down (I understand from your previous posts that’s one of the objectives), then using 15 grams in a 14 g basket is 10% less coffee than 16.5…

                                              CoyoteOldMan No, you aren’t, but if you want to bring your caffeine intake down (I understand from your previous posts that’s one of the objectives), then using 15 grams in a 14 g basket is 10% less coffee than 16.5…

                                              Ah yes!! I might give that a try as well and see how I get on. Thanks 👍🏼😁

                                                DrForinor

                                                I feel the frustration. When I first bought a Silvia, first thing I did was get a VST basket and just pulled sinkers for like a week straight. Almost gave up on espresso altogether.

                                                Stock basket, dodgy prep - great coffee and I was happy.

                                                    DrForinor

                                                    Nope, it’s just because the last two machines I’ve had (Bianca and now Linea Mini) have come with IMS and VST baskets. If they hadn’t have done, I’d have just used the standard ones.

                                                    My puck prep is still lax. This is why I’m not sure if the La Marzocco baskets are the same as aftermarket VST. It seems to be far more forgiving than I remember the VST being but then it was a totally different machine with its own inconsistencies so too many variables to really know without seeing them side by side.

                                                      Firstly, it may be worth taking a look at this thread Basket Case - Coffeetime - World’s best non-commercial coffee forum (freeflarum.com) to hear more people talking about how much of a difference baskets make to the end result.

                                                      Assuming it’s the same basket that comes with the Mara as it is the Elizabeth, I find that 16.5g one (dosed with 15g in my case) is pretty forgiving, and I rarely end up with a poor shot. In particular I think it produces ‘round, sweet’ tasting espresso.

                                                      Recently I’ve switched over to the VST 15g (at 15g does) almost permanently as I find I have dialled in my prep such that I rarely get bad ones, and I find this basket (or probably more accurately the change in grind and flow) gets more ‘fruity’ notes which I prefer. However, it took a bit more practice to hit upon a good grind and prep level.

                                                      I would note that if I end up with a bag of dark roasted coffee I will generally switch back to the IMS/Lelit one as it brings out the sweetness more which counteracts the ‘burnt’ flavours.

                                                      Don’t forget that it’s about what you want to drink, so if you’re happy with the IMS/Lelit one, don’t be afraid to stick with that for the timebeing.

                                                        coffeeb I find that 16.5g one (dosed with 15g in my case) is pretty forgiving, and I rarely end up with a poor shot. In particular I think it produces ‘round, sweet’ tasting espresso.

                                                        This is exactly what I’m also finding.