tompoland But it will be a bit of an apples to oranges comparison between the conical and flat burrs.

Why is this?

      Some guy on Hb forum was saying mazzer burrs are not good for light roast espresso, apparently light roast wears down mazzer burrs. And people should use SSP 🤯

      I have had both SSP and am now back on ti coated mazzer burrs,

      Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

      • Dusk replied to this.

        MWJB

        Well … apples and oranges are both fruit but offer different experiences. Neither good nor bad, just different.

        Similarly, a 63mm conical and an 83mm flat, each with quite different burr geometry, offer different experiences.

        That pretty much sums up why we have different burrs.

        They can both do everything, and they each do some things better than the other.

        A 63mm Mazzer Kony conical is my pick for a double ristretto pulled with a La San Marco lever and a medium roasted Kenyan Lena AA at 93 degrees. That’s a match made in heaven. For me.

        An 83mm Gorilla Gear DLC flat is going to give me what I want with a light roasted high altitude Yemi bean using Rao’s Blooming profile and 96 degrees on the Decent.

        Those two experiences are a world apart, as far apart as an apple and an orange.

        But I think that within the great Conical vs Flat debate, there are other variables that have to be factored in, in order to reach any meaningful (there is that word again) conclusions, and the most impactful of those variables are the bean and roast depth.

        • MWJB replied to this.

            Cuprajake

            Surely lighter roasted beans will wear down any burrs faster as they tend to be much harder than darker roasted beans. Even if the Mazzer burrs are slightly softer than others they would surely still last a very long time in a domestic environment.

                @tompoland and others
                Out of curiosity what would you consider the taste profile of the Mazer Kony burrs in my current Niche? For espresso vs V60?

                And …. does anyone know which specific burrs are used in the Niche Zero and thereby the likely taste profile?

                  Dusk

                  I think there is a difference between lighter roasted beans needing a more powerful motor or better gearbox to grind and the beans wearing out the hardened steel burrs.
                  All of those burrs are really ’ken hard compared to the beans.

                      There may be, but for a home user to wear out a burr set, is some dedicated drinking 🤣

                      Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

                      Amberale

                      This is my point, I’m not convinced anyone is likely to wear out any burrset with any type of beans in a domestic environment. So I would take anyone claiming Mazzer burrs will wear out quickly with a pinch of salt.

                        Is the motor really 130W? That seems a bit… underpowered for 83mm burrs. I’d be more worried about wearing that out than the burrs.

                        The Major that uses those burrs (assuming they are Major burrs) is 650W… even the Mazzer Mini is 250W.

                        In fact a Baratza Encore has more power…

                          dfk41 - thanks, but that wasn’t the question. 😉. Appreciate wattage tells us very little of what it can or can’t do (E.g.: a motor can be more efficient - and/or effective - than another with the same or higher wattage).

                              MediumRoastSteam thanks, but that wasn’t the question. 😉. Appreciate wattage tells us very little of what it can or can’t do (E.g.: a motor can be more efficient - and/or effective - than another with the same or higher wattage).

                              I think it would be safe to assume the grinder would have been well tested prior to launch….

                              Contact me

                                  tompoland I meant more, why the conical and flat comparison would be more apples to oranges, than comparing 2 different flats or 2 different conicals.

                                      FadedFrontiers Do you have any data to the contrary?

                                      I’m looking for data, that’s why I asked.

                                      The phone app/photo based measurement methods you linked to are not intuitive & easy to read, nor correlated to any known convention/datums.

                                      I’m specifically not asking for more anecdotal accounts, especially from owners/influencers as to why their extemely rare grinder is somehow special.

                                      Jim Schuman’s appraisal of the Titan grinder PD curves were they were all statistically ‘the same’ IIRC (I have no comment on this).

                                          MWJB I get that I just think it’s extremely unlikely we’ll get any sort of definitive study given how costly and time consuming it is to do such methodological tests. And I don’t think the imperfection of other more pragmatic approaches are reason to disregard them completely. Agree we should approach opinions and marketing about burrs with skepticism, much in the way we would do an actual grinder or other bit of equipment.

                                          Gagne’s use of q-factor as a way of quantifying grind distribution for example seems useful, not just for comparing different geometries either - as it also showed the benefit that seasoning and aligning burrs has in creating tighter particle distribution.