Dusk

I think there is a difference between lighter roasted beans needing a more powerful motor or better gearbox to grind and the beans wearing out the hardened steel burrs.
All of those burrs are really ’ken hard compared to the beans.

    There may be, but for a home user to wear out a burr set, is some dedicated drinking 🤣

    Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

    Amberale

    This is my point, I’m not convinced anyone is likely to wear out any burrset with any type of beans in a domestic environment. So I would take anyone claiming Mazzer burrs will wear out quickly with a pinch of salt.

    Is the motor really 130W? That seems a bit… underpowered for 83mm burrs. I’d be more worried about wearing that out than the burrs.

    The Major that uses those burrs (assuming they are Major burrs) is 650W… even the Mazzer Mini is 250W.

    In fact a Baratza Encore has more power…

      dfk41 - thanks, but that wasn’t the question. 😉. Appreciate wattage tells us very little of what it can or can’t do (E.g.: a motor can be more efficient - and/or effective - than another with the same or higher wattage).

        MediumRoastSteam thanks, but that wasn’t the question. 😉. Appreciate wattage tells us very little of what it can or can’t do (E.g.: a motor can be more efficient - and/or effective - than another with the same or higher wattage).

        I think it would be safe to assume the grinder would have been well tested prior to launch….

          tompoland I meant more, why the conical and flat comparison would be more apples to oranges, than comparing 2 different flats or 2 different conicals.

            FadedFrontiers Do you have any data to the contrary?

            I’m looking for data, that’s why I asked.

            The phone app/photo based measurement methods you linked to are not intuitive & easy to read, nor correlated to any known convention/datums.

            I’m specifically not asking for more anecdotal accounts, especially from owners/influencers as to why their extemely rare grinder is somehow special.

            Jim Schuman’s appraisal of the Titan grinder PD curves were they were all statistically ‘the same’ IIRC (I have no comment on this).

              MWJB I get that I just think it’s extremely unlikely we’ll get any sort of definitive study given how costly and time consuming it is to do such methodological tests. And I don’t think the imperfection of other more pragmatic approaches are reason to disregard them completely. Agree we should approach opinions and marketing about burrs with skepticism, much in the way we would do an actual grinder or other bit of equipment.

              Gagne’s use of q-factor as a way of quantifying grind distribution for example seems useful, not just for comparing different geometries either - as it also showed the benefit that seasoning and aligning burrs has in creating tighter particle distribution.

                FadedFrontiers A large study is going to be costly and no one is going to be interested in footing the bill. I don’t expect a large scale scientific study, but anyone who has 2 grinders/burrs to compare can take some basing measurements, especially for drip/filter. I do it for every brew I make at home (times, EY, subjective preference score, some flavour perception notes & often a sifting result after dial in).

                Gagne’s Q factor seems a lot like the previously used (last 80yrs?) std.dev in sifting. I haven’t been able to find any relationship between a sifted Q factor and overall preference myself, with filter.

                This word “geometries” seems very popular at the minute, do you mean shape & size of burrs, or something more detailed (e.g. pre-breaker & finishing area characteristics)?

                  MediumRoastSteam The Niche Zero folks don’t specify the wattage of the motor, as far as I can tell. That indicates that they don’t see this as a selling point, otherwise they probably would specify it.

                  From a quick survey, it seems that most coffee grinder manufacturers will specify the wattage of the motor. In fact, it’s to find a grinder manufacturer that doesn’t, except for Niche. Fellows doesn’t seem to specify wattage, but they do specify torque, which is arguably a better measure than wattage.

                    wilburpan A DC motor will draw whatever wattage it needs to, only limited by the resistance of the windings (which isn’t that high). It’s why the main control board in the Niche such (as it is) has a a self resetting cut out, if too much current is drawn in too short a time (protecting the motor windings). So it really doesn’t make any sense to talk about maximum motor power consumption in W.

                    Unlike a free running non geared AC induction motor…but again, wattage consumption bears no real relationship to torque…or not the one you think.. If you jam an AC induction motor, there is little torque…jam a DC one and it’s exerting a very high torque.

                    It’s just how these motors work.

                      To voice my concerns a different way, because I’m not smart enough to understand electrical specs;

                      Is there a risk of burnout or stress with using a motor designed for 64mm conical burrs with 83mm flat burrs?

                      I appreciate they will have tested it it’s just there are rumours this was possibly rushed out to compete with the growing number of well regarded competing SD flats, competition that didn’t really exist when the Niche Zero was launched.

                      Obviously just rumours, not saying I agree or support those rumours at all, just curious.