If you have pre ordered I would love to know why. For me it's interesting: 58mm basket in a lever, 9 bar or 6 bar spring or direct. PID. Optional mobile phone app for pressure profile and shot recording. That's quite a mix. The creator of the Argos, Ross, posted on Discord yesterday to say that he has 282 pre orders. He is building 500 machines for the first batch for shipping April. He also posted to say that if pre orders exceed 500 by April he will order parts for another 500. Sounds like progress.

> @"tompoland"#p2540 He also posted to say that if pre orders exceed 500 by April he will order parts for another 500. Did he also say what would happen if pre orders do not exceed 500 units? 🤔

@"MediumRoastSteam"#p2545 Umm? He’ll have some in stock to sell? Be able to fill orders straight away.

@"Amberale"#p2546 - what I’m saying is… say he sells 480 by the April deadline. Will this mean that he will then have 20 in stock, but, should he have sold an extra 20, he would have had 500 in stock? Seems like a strange thing to say.

As I said in the other forum, if Ross (or Reiss?) ever decided to sell a bare bones package for self assembly, in much the same lines as Westfield cars, I would seriously consider buying one. Price could reflect savings in assembly labour, some parts and perhaps some taxes.

With shipping it comes to just over $1000 to send to UK. What would be the expected bill for vat/tax etc?

@"Beverast"#p2551 I'd bung 20% VAT 7% import and customs handling…so perhaps $300?

@"MediumRoastSteam"#p2547 I reckon 500 units is his best/minimum order for parts. Say his pre-orders hit 350, he will have parts for another 150 on hand. If orders get closer to 500 then he orders parts for another 500. Maybe even 1000 if it manages to meet all its targets and demand rises. Time will tell. 🤔

At the moment he seems to have an open field with no defenders or goalkeeper to stop him as long as he can make it down the end of the pitch. There is really no other competitor in that space.

@"DavecUK"#p2560 So nearly £1000 overall. As you said competitive space/price…even better if you live in the States.

@"DavecUK"#p2625 Wouldn't the competition be the Pavoni, the Microleva & the Cremina? (who will hopefully revise prices downwards)

Odyssey Argos

tompoland

@MediumRoastSteam if orders are less than 500 then he’ll keep selling the stock that is the balance between those machine sold and the initial 500 batch. If orders exceed the 500 that he is making for the first batch, then he pulls the trigger and orders enough parts for another 500.

tompoland

Yes quite different to all of those and others. Two spring strengths, or direct, 58mm basket, optional pressure gauge, optional app for mapping profiles of each pull and more.

tompoland

Beverast and for Aussies it works out at around AU$1,500 (including US$220 for shipping - ouch) so expect around $120 to be added by Australian customs.

Lake_M

Watching closely but going slightly cold on the idea since it exploded into everyone’s consciousness earlier this year. Definitely a ‘watch and wait’ scenario for me. But if he pulls it off at that price, it’s a cool piece of kit for sure.

DavecUK

It’s hard enough for an established manufacturer, to bring a new product to market, super difficult for newcomers. One of the reasons the Vesuvius Evo development and design, took the approach it did.

Systemic

Bringing any new project to market is a challenge more so if it’s pushing boundaries design and spec-wise. If the team behind this pull it off, the world of lever espresso machines will be the better for it.

Amberale

I agree with you both.
One of the main reasons I have backed this machine(well I ordered one that’s all) is because it is the first modern attempt at a small lever I have seen and the incumbents don’t seem to have made any attempt at all for over twenty years.
Around 2000 I bought a Gaggia Classic.
The only realistic prosumer competition then was the Silvia.
That market segment is now huge with a hell of a lot of innovation.
I’m happy to invest in the possibility of a grounbreaking small lever.
Who knows, the first gen might be the best and how good will it be if it kicks off a design war. :)

DavecUK

I always like products the push the boundaries, move things foward and encourage everyone to improve. Products that simply lag behind, and are released to make money out of a much older existing market, are much less fun. Innovation has given us a huge choice of better machines and grinders, compared to 20 years ago.

tompoland

@Amberale and other Argos pre-orderers:

Ross posted on Discord today today to say portafilter handles are due March 31. He plans to have all units boxed and ready to ship at that time, needing only to insert the portafilters as they arrive. He says that the Argos is still on track to ship in April.

He is posting a video tomorrow on converting the Argos from spring to direct.

DavecUK

tompoland He says that the Argos is still on track to ship in April.

I think if he meets that date, it will be excellent news, not easy to make a new product for a small concern.

Beverast

Enea_

Beverast

So not a change you’d make on the fly, to test out some theory on how to get even better taste out of the coffee at hand, but definitely doable to play around for a few days. Very very cool!

Beverast

Enea_ To be honest I am lazy and would probably just buy the separate piston assembly without the spring.

Amberale

Thats what I did.

tompoland

It’s pretty darned cool. In addition to using it as a direct and 9 bar spring lever, there is an additional option to use a 6 bar spring. I’m quite sure that for most of us, we would only change it once or twice. But still very cool.

Amberale

Given the price profile on this I would not be surprised to see people with a couple of these side by side set as a spring and a direct lever.

Much the same as folks will have an LP and an Electra on the same bench and for the same or less expenditure.

tompoland

That’s what I was thinking @Amberale - in fact, I would like to see three of these lined up next to each other on your coffee island please: 9 bar spring, 6 bar spring, direct.

Amberale

For about the same price all up as your lovely Strietman.

I fugure that even if the V1 has some flaws it should be upgradable and for the couple of shots a day that I want I am comfortable that it will at least match the small footprint competition.

I am really, really itching to get to play with one.

tompoland

True true.

It would be interested to compare the shots from that 58mm basket of the Argos to the 49mm basket of the Streitman. Most likely not better, but surely quite different.

DavecUK

tompoland How many g of coffee does the CT1 hold?

tompoland

DavecUK 15 grams is the max I fill it with. The biggest basket supplied is 18 grams but for some reason 18g doesn’t seem to fit. Routinely 36 - 40 grams out.

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