Autumn coming early.

dfk41 Lol at climate change loons! You know that there are climate change denying loons too, don’t you? They get everywhere, the loons!

Cuprajake If I agreed with Gargaryn, he would still disagree with me agreeing……LOL

Gagaryn Perhaps we are both members of opposing parties. It is impossible for either side to be proven right, or wrong. We will either be dead and therefore not aware, or we will not be dead…….difference is, being a loon, I do not live in fear of something that is no nearer actually happening that when these predictions first started happening. Sure the climate changes. Look out of the window. But if climate change is behind the heatwave of last year in the UK, what has happened this year and why?

And @Cuprajake…….it is quite possible to argue/debate without falling out. It is just healthy conversation

dfk41 No I wouldn’t! ;-)

Even if human activity is changing our climate….there is absolutely nothing we in the UK can do about it. So it’s completely pointless worrying about it.

I do not know one way or the other except……

The stuff I see of the polar caps and the melting ice and massive reduction of the ice shelfs. Is that down to the planet’s climate rising and if so, is it humans causing it? I haven’t got a scooby. Are those facts true? is it only in the last 60 years or so this has been happening or is it a cycical thing that regardless of what we do, it is something the earth goes through as a matter of course every so many hundred or thousands of years?

My logical (or illogical probably) brain says, if there is now more of a particular harmful substance, which granted has also in the past been emitted naturally (volcanos and the like) being pumped into the air, there is going to be an effect of some sort. Now, it is possible that before, the natural emission of this substance was counteracted by the planet by having huge areas of forestation to cope with it. But, because of the actions of humans those forests has and continues to be reduced dramatically, thus reducing the planet’s ability to adjust a bit like a young persons lungs against an old person with emphysema. So, the question is, does that inability lead to the average temperature of the earth rising and if so effect the weather patterns too? I’m buggered if I know, but again my logic says probably. As for the heat waves hitting areas or not as the case may be, maybe this rise in temperature also effects jet streams and how the scoot around the planet…I don’t know.

We cannot deny that what humans are doing on this planet must have some effect. Just look at what platsic waste and waste in general are doing or the dumping of raw sewage killing rivers.

All I do know is that the unfortunate thing about most humans be they individuals or governments or massive companies, most have a ‘live for today and sod tomorrow’ attitude. We have for the most part forgotten how to live with nature and because of our prolification, want or need to tame it and that never ends well. We look at people like amazonian tribes or the old American indigenous tribes and think them backwards, but they managed the natural resources didn’t destroy them. It is a myth that they hunted species to exctinction. Only modern man has killed species to exctinction…The Dodo being just one example.

The trouble with modern humans is that we invent and make wonderful things, many of which make our lives easier more comfortable, but in making these things we never considered what happens to them when they become useless or obsolete and have to be thrown away.

So, in conclusion there is only one thing I do know and cannot be sensibly or scientifically disputed….the earth is not flat!

Pompeyexile Ah yes, but, back in the day………..

Pompeyexile We have for the most part forgotten how to live with nature and because of our prolification, want or need to tame it and that never ends well. We look at people like amazonian tribes or the old American indigenous tribes and think them backwards, but they managed the natural resources didn’t destroy them.

We do live almost twice as long now though?

dfk41 I think you are forgetting one very important fact - that there were far fewer humans on the planet even a mere 100 years ago - never mind the preceding millennia.

In 1900 the global population was around 1.6 billion people. By 1950 that was about 2.5 billion people now there are over 8 billion people!

I would be amazed if such a sudden rapid growth in the population of any species didn’t impact on the environment - let alone an intelligent species that learns quickly how to exploit surrounding resources.

dfk41 Yes, rate of increase is now slowing but population is still increasing, not decreasing. The real damage was done in the last century. But barring a call we are stuck with the status quo! :-)

To answer your question - yes, a universal strategy is required for the future. No country can solve global issues alone. But I think there is still benefit in developing cleaner and more sustainable ways of living, it will become increasing necessary as there are now more humans battling for limited resources.

I agree the 2030 net zero target is BS. I also agree that even if the UK met that target (we won’t) it wouldn’t make a shred of difference globally. But my takeaway from that is that other countries need to do more, not that we need to do less.

Think that’s what needs talking about.

I can’t understand why new builds both home and commercial are not designed with solar panels feeding into the grid

Recently in Wales on holiday and I was sad to drive past a field with what seemed like a mile of solar panels covering it,

Till we can get the bigger countries on side we really are swimming up stream, also think that UK housing is so poorly built in general when you look to the homes in Scandinavia and how well insulated they are for instance.

I can’t help but feel the future will be the film idiocracy 😂

I have said this before, why on earth is there not a law that says ANY new housing or factories or any buildings built, are built with Solar panels, battery storage and rain water reclaim to flush the toilets?

Again all you hear is expense…well what happened with the more you make the cheaper it becomes? If as they want there are to be hundreds of thousands if not millions of new homes being built, then surely that would help bring down the prices.

There was a programme on TV last week that showed one house builder who has changed the design of their houses and now automatically fit solar panels and batteries as standard along with the insulation required. That is one builder who is willing to make the changes without having to be forced to by legislation. So, why can’t the others do the same?

I know many do not see solar as the silver bullit but even if it allows houses to reduce their dependance on the grid by 25-30% given the amount of houses, factories, shops, municiple buildings, heck all buildings, that is a lot of pressure taken off the national grid.

As for there are nowhere near as many people on the planet as say 300 years or more ago…true, but then those people were not making plastics and many other sorts of stuff that was harming the environment either. Most of their stuff was made with material that degraded into the environment, which is why archeologists do not find that much. In 300 years time if an archeologist puts a shovel into the ground they will find absolutely tons of s**t.

Even retrofitting.

Can you imagine how much it would lessen demand if the government fit solar to everyone house or business?

Cuprajake Solar panels simply do not add up for the individual. I have looked a few times and the numbers for me, do not add up. A little bit like subsidised heat pumps. Legislation has prohibited gas ch boilers in new builds but the subsidising of air to air is going to be a ball ache for homes trying to keep warm in a cold spell

Pompeyexile I guess with a bit of common sense applied, instead of serving the corporations (which is mainly what the establishment do) we could have some much better solutions. Rather than forcing people down a path to rinse more money out of them. Just a few things to think about.

• Monoblock Heatpumps cost about 10-12K and have a build cost of £500 or less. Govt subsidises 6K…which goes straight to China. Why not build a nationalised heat pump manufacturer, so you can build 10 heat pumps for 1 6K subsidy?
• Not all properties can be economically converted to a wet heatpump system…so why not enourage air to air systems (currently no grants) and a small gas water heater (or instantaneous electric, if suitable for smaller properties. A2A will work well in older properties…why must we be all or nothing.
• Why are we letting other countries own and buiild our basic infrastructure
• etc… etc..

It’s all about profit in someone’s pocket…..they don’t care about the planet. All these windfarms, yet leccy ain’t cheaper is it. We are one of the most expensive countries in Europe and possibly the world for our electric.