Autumn coming early.

dfk41 I think you are forgetting one very important fact - that there were far fewer humans on the planet even a mere 100 years ago - never mind the preceding millennia.

In 1900 the global population was around 1.6 billion people. By 1950 that was about 2.5 billion people now there are over 8 billion people!

I would be amazed if such a sudden rapid growth in the population of any species didn’t impact on the environment - let alone an intelligent species that learns quickly how to exploit surrounding resources.

dfk41 Yes, rate of increase is now slowing but population is still increasing, not decreasing. The real damage was done in the last century. But barring a call we are stuck with the status quo! :-)

To answer your question - yes, a universal strategy is required for the future. No country can solve global issues alone. But I think there is still benefit in developing cleaner and more sustainable ways of living, it will become increasing necessary as there are now more humans battling for limited resources.

I agree the 2030 net zero target is BS. I also agree that even if the UK met that target (we won’t) it wouldn’t make a shred of difference globally. But my takeaway from that is that other countries need to do more, not that we need to do less.

Think that’s what needs talking about.

I can’t understand why new builds both home and commercial are not designed with solar panels feeding into the grid

Recently in Wales on holiday and I was sad to drive past a field with what seemed like a mile of solar panels covering it,

Till we can get the bigger countries on side we really are swimming up stream, also think that UK housing is so poorly built in general when you look to the homes in Scandinavia and how well insulated they are for instance.

I can’t help but feel the future will be the film idiocracy 😂

I have said this before, why on earth is there not a law that says ANY new housing or factories or any buildings built, are built with Solar panels, battery storage and rain water reclaim to flush the toilets?

Again all you hear is expense…well what happened with the more you make the cheaper it becomes? If as they want there are to be hundreds of thousands if not millions of new homes being built, then surely that would help bring down the prices.

There was a programme on TV last week that showed one house builder who has changed the design of their houses and now automatically fit solar panels and batteries as standard along with the insulation required. That is one builder who is willing to make the changes without having to be forced to by legislation. So, why can’t the others do the same?

I know many do not see solar as the silver bullit but even if it allows houses to reduce their dependance on the grid by 25-30% given the amount of houses, factories, shops, municiple buildings, heck all buildings, that is a lot of pressure taken off the national grid.

As for there are nowhere near as many people on the planet as say 300 years or more ago…true, but then those people were not making plastics and many other sorts of stuff that was harming the environment either. Most of their stuff was made with material that degraded into the environment, which is why archeologists do not find that much. In 300 years time if an archeologist puts a shovel into the ground they will find absolutely tons of s**t.

Even retrofitting.

Can you imagine how much it would lessen demand if the government fit solar to everyone house or business?

Cuprajake Solar panels simply do not add up for the individual. I have looked a few times and the numbers for me, do not add up. A little bit like subsidised heat pumps. Legislation has prohibited gas ch boilers in new builds but the subsidising of air to air is going to be a ball ache for homes trying to keep warm in a cold spell

Pompeyexile I guess with a bit of common sense applied, instead of serving the corporations (which is mainly what the establishment do) we could have some much better solutions. Rather than forcing people down a path to rinse more money out of them. Just a few things to think about.

• Monoblock Heatpumps cost about 10-12K and have a build cost of £500 or less. Govt subsidises 6K…which goes straight to China. Why not build a nationalised heat pump manufacturer, so you can build 10 heat pumps for 1 6K subsidy?
• Not all properties can be economically converted to a wet heatpump system…so why not enourage air to air systems (currently no grants) and a small gas water heater (or instantaneous electric, if suitable for smaller properties. A2A will work well in older properties…why must we be all or nothing.
• Why are we letting other countries own and buiild our basic infrastructure
• etc… etc..

It’s all about profit in someone’s pocket…..they don’t care about the planet. All these windfarms, yet leccy ain’t cheaper is it. We are one of the most expensive countries in Europe and possibly the world for our electric.

Gagaryn The generation cost of renewable electricity is much cheaper but due to the stupid electricity market being tied to the global commodity price of gas we always pay that price for all electricity

So it is not then? Do you realistically think there is any chance of the current structure voting for a pay cut?

i know solar would take about 10yrs to payback for us

I would rather pay my mortgage than investing on any of these, given the current mortgage rate that too a life-time tracker. 😂

dfk41 Not clear what you mean? Cost of production is lower for renewables but due to how the market operates it is sold at the same price as all electricity. Hope that is clearer.

I agree with the sentiment of your question in second part - the argument given for privatising the UK energy sector was that competition between suppliers would lead to lower prices. The public agreed and voted that through pocketing British Gas shares and thinking they would be rich. Whether things would be materially different if the energy sector hadn’t been privatized is above my pay grade but I have my doubts. But yes, I do think their will be reform in the wholesale market as the percentages of means of production change. As to whether this will automatically benefit the consumer - I think we both know the answer to that…

Gagaryn Not clear what you mean?

I simply meant, that despite production costs being cheaper, because of the way the industry is structured the consumer sees no benefit. Nor will they in the future unless somehow a future government can legislate/force the changes though. Slowly but surely, folks are realising that for many years the world has been dominated by a few global powers who only have one aim……..to accumulate anything at the expense to those not in their club

Gagaryn Not clear what you mean? Cost of production is lower for renewables but due to how the market operates it is sold at the same price as all electricity. Hope that is clearer.

I don’t necessarily disagree, although I am sure the establishment will continue to find a way to never lower the price to what it should be. The true lifetime cost of renewables is also a little opaque at the moment.. The whole CFD scheme for renewables is difficult to understand and almost impossible to get information on which companies have actually taken up their contract for difference. I believe most/all have delayed (because they are making massive profits). The establishment is manfully attempting to get changes introduced to the scheme, which probable means either an extension, a contract variation in the electricity companies favour, or something else. While (you guessed it), the consumer has been financing the scheme and build costs, whilst these businesses have reaped huge profits.

Everything that we have to have keeps going up in price, look at the huge profits and payouts in:

• Water companies, now some are going bankrupt
• banks (bailout)
• Electricity companies making money then going bankrupt

I could go on and on, in the end, we the consumer, the little people pay the cost. They suck the money away and then we end up having to pay.

dfk41 Yup - we all get shafted by the man. That never changes. When are we starting the Coffee Lovers branch of The Weathermen? Count me in! :-)

Gagaryn As long as it does not involve singing, I am also in