Autumn coming early.

Cuprajake Solar panels simply do not add up for the individual. I have looked a few times and the numbers for me, do not add up. A little bit like subsidised heat pumps. Legislation has prohibited gas ch boilers in new builds but the subsidising of air to air is going to be a ball ache for homes trying to keep warm in a cold spell

Pompeyexile I guess with a bit of common sense applied, instead of serving the corporations (which is mainly what the establishment do) we could have some much better solutions. Rather than forcing people down a path to rinse more money out of them. Just a few things to think about.

• Monoblock Heatpumps cost about 10-12K and have a build cost of £500 or less. Govt subsidises 6K…which goes straight to China. Why not build a nationalised heat pump manufacturer, so you can build 10 heat pumps for 1 6K subsidy?
• Not all properties can be economically converted to a wet heatpump system…so why not enourage air to air systems (currently no grants) and a small gas water heater (or instantaneous electric, if suitable for smaller properties. A2A will work well in older properties…why must we be all or nothing.
• Why are we letting other countries own and buiild our basic infrastructure
• etc… etc..

It’s all about profit in someone’s pocket…..they don’t care about the planet. All these windfarms, yet leccy ain’t cheaper is it. We are one of the most expensive countries in Europe and possibly the world for our electric.

DavecUK The generation cost of renewable electricity is much cheaper but due to the stupid electricity market being tied to the global commodity price of gas we always pay that price for all electricity - this needs to be changed.

UK electricity is actually cheaper than most of Europe although still one of the highest cost in the world. In Europe, only Spain and France are cheaper.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/263492/electricity-prices-in-selected-countries/

Gagaryn The generation cost of renewable electricity is much cheaper but due to the stupid electricity market being tied to the global commodity price of gas we always pay that price for all electricity

So it is not then? Do you realistically think there is any chance of the current structure voting for a pay cut?

i know solar would take about 10yrs to payback for us

I would rather pay my mortgage than investing on any of these, given the current mortgage rate that too a life-time tracker. 😂

dfk41 Not clear what you mean? Cost of production is lower for renewables but due to how the market operates it is sold at the same price as all electricity. Hope that is clearer.

I agree with the sentiment of your question in second part - the argument given for privatising the UK energy sector was that competition between suppliers would lead to lower prices. The public agreed and voted that through pocketing British Gas shares and thinking they would be rich. Whether things would be materially different if the energy sector hadn’t been privatized is above my pay grade but I have my doubts. But yes, I do think their will be reform in the wholesale market as the percentages of means of production change. As to whether this will automatically benefit the consumer - I think we both know the answer to that…

Gagaryn Not clear what you mean?

I simply meant, that despite production costs being cheaper, because of the way the industry is structured the consumer sees no benefit. Nor will they in the future unless somehow a future government can legislate/force the changes though. Slowly but surely, folks are realising that for many years the world has been dominated by a few global powers who only have one aim……..to accumulate anything at the expense to those not in their club

Gagaryn Not clear what you mean? Cost of production is lower for renewables but due to how the market operates it is sold at the same price as all electricity. Hope that is clearer.

I don’t necessarily disagree, although I am sure the establishment will continue to find a way to never lower the price to what it should be. The true lifetime cost of renewables is also a little opaque at the moment.. The whole CFD scheme for renewables is difficult to understand and almost impossible to get information on which companies have actually taken up their contract for difference. I believe most/all have delayed (because they are making massive profits). The establishment is manfully attempting to get changes introduced to the scheme, which probable means either an extension, a contract variation in the electricity companies favour, or something else. While (you guessed it), the consumer has been financing the scheme and build costs, whilst these businesses have reaped huge profits.

Everything that we have to have keeps going up in price, look at the huge profits and payouts in:

• Water companies, now some are going bankrupt
• banks (bailout)
• Electricity companies making money then going bankrupt

I could go on and on, in the end, we the consumer, the little people pay the cost. They suck the money away and then we end up having to pay.

Gagaryn As long as it does not involve singing, I am also in