Tom’s amazing burr project got me thinking about this remarkable sounding grinder. Conical or flat; 71mm, 80mm, 83mm burrs from Mazzer and SSP with variable speed, and essentially zero retention, at a very sane price. Burr swap in unedited video, and confirmed by several users, as under three minutes with perfect alignment.

So I wonder why there isn’t more discussion of it, or in fact any discussion or reviews here, where there is a serious concentration of knowledgeable grinder & burr enthusiasts?

If anyone can offer some technical opinions on this grinder, I’d love to hear them.

    BrendaninBrooklyn So I wonder why there isn’t more discussion of it, or in fact any discussion or reviews here, where there is a serious concentration of knowledgeable grinder & burr enthusiasts?

    Forgot all about it…it was launched 2 years ago. but didn’t see much mention of it and I guess the (far too many) influencers didn’t get on board for some reason. Although a few pushed it.

    Might have been to do with the £1373 +VAT Plus import of 7% = £1673 + shipping

    Also the cost of burrs and carriers not supplied £760 (-25% deal, which almost covers the VAT and import tax). Now I realise I have included one of each type, but you weren’t buying it for not swapping the burrs were you.

    Assume the shipping is included in the original grinder and would be around 70 +VAT as it looks heavy, we have a final shipped price to UK of £2517

    I think it’s not going to be in many peoples Christmas list and doesn’t have the "desirability and brag factor) of a Monolith Flat Max2, EG1, Option O P100, Weber Key… and other esoteric/ hard to get grinders in a similar price range. After having extensively tested these same Esoteric grinders, I realise that many are not great or easy to use, but people never mention this….because they paid so much. The only one of the ones I have mentioned that I think does deliver in the cup is the Monolith Flat Max 2, however it’s workflow is not great and certainly not a patch on my Niche Duos! Plus the variable speed really isn’t a useful feature as I found the best speed to run it at is 400 rpm (the maximum). The monolith is also no faster to grind really after the huffing and puffing etc.. to get the rest of the coffee out.

    This has rather cured me of grinditis 😁

    P.S. It’s probably the same reason there isn’t much discussion on the P100, Monolith Flat Max, EG1 etc.. The few people who have bought these grinders usually announce their buying one, bathe in the glory and then feel no need to post because there probably isn’t many others to join a discussion of how good it is. As certainly there usually isn’t a discussion of issues on earlier models until the revised model 2’s 3’s etc.. I know I’m an old cynic…but seen it happen a lot over the years.

    I should add, my own personal interests really extend to the equipment sold to lots of people and helping make that better, because that’s the biggest bang for my mental effort. The Evo was a personal interest of mine because It’s the lever machine I always wanted almost 20 years ago…now a reality.

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        Dave, thanks as always for your elucidation.

        In the very high-priced category I only pay attention to Kafatek, Titus, and Versalab, none of which I would actually purchase, but all of which I respect. It occurred to me that a WUG with three burr sets, conical and two flat, was a lot less expensive than two or three Monoliths but with similar performance. Also, much less counter space needed.

        This is what aroused my curiosity, along with the thought it would have been perfect for Tom’s burrathon ;-)

        I’m Niche and Kinu only as far as purchases now and in the future. Others may feel differently but for me the NZ, ND, and M47 Classic are practical ultimates, although occasionally I get curious about other stuff like this. Thanks again.

        BrendaninBrooklyn Ooh yes, started thinking seriously about that one. It really looks to be right at the top of the pecking order for a grinder of the highest quality and flexibility. Very interested. Part of me wishes it were rubbish (the bank manager part) and the other part is knee deep in grinder-lust.

            DavecUK This has rather cured me of grinditis 😁

            I could do with that cure.

            Very true re paying a fortune and “needing” it to have been a wise invesment. Add to that the honeymoon period that goes with most things that are new.

            The light bulb moment for me was when I blind tested the EG-1 with the Moca SD. I still remember the shock. It was NOT the result I was expecting and frankly it was not the result I was wanting. The little Swiss Miss rang rings around the EG-1 in the cup, and the workflow was amongst the best I’d experienced. Sold the EG-1, bought another Moca SD to pair with the second espresso machine I had at the time.

            Lesson learnt*: just because it costs three times the price and looks like a rocket ship does not mean that it’s better in the cup.

            (* I hope)

            The Wug2 is fascinating for sure. I just ended up thinking that I wouldn’t be changing the burrs; I prefer just to get a second grinder.

                BrendaninBrooklyn I’m keen to see the Mazzer Philos in the hands of some users and some reviews, etc.

                I’m looking to move from my Niche Zero but the Lagom P64 I thought I wanted with its added UK import tax makes the Mazzer look like a better option in terms of pricing. I hope on par or better in functionality.

                We’ll see and I’m in no rush to upgrade. But if I do, I’ll happily do a full on review.

                    tompoland Your review of the Olympic was a welcome eye-opener, although it may have been a cold shower to some trudging down the Titan path.

                    I’d rather spend less on gear; more on coffee, and I am much more of a limiting factor in my in-cup results than my grinder.

                    I cannot imagine ever wishing for more than NZ + ND, but if I did your “Swiss Miss” and possibly the Philos would be my ceiling and the only candidates on a grinder shortlist.

                    I am however cheering your burr-madness wildly here in Brooklyn. As someone who tried several hundred teas to find a small number I loved I have sympathy for obsession.

                      Verion I know there are rumors of Philos pricing, and if even roughly correct expect it will compete very directly with Lagom P64 and Zerno Z1. If the UK were still in the EU perhaps even more so assuming lower VAT or similar.

                      There is no knowing until it gets released however I strongly suspect is will be much better engineered and at least as well built as either of those.

                      I hope you decide to obtain one and will look forward to your review.

                        Yeah I’m excited about the Philos. If the rumoured £999/$999 pricing is accurate I think it could be a great success. I’ve always preferred to pay a premium for a robustly built product from a heritage manufacturer that looks great.

                        Sadly this doesn’t always come with class-leading performance but hopefully the Philos will tick all the boxes.

                        La Marzocco Linea Mini - Mazzer Philos

                        Ikawa Roaster

                          HarveyMushman Yes, at this point it looks really thoughtfully designed and built exceptionally well. Of course, we’ve only seen the demo ;-)

                          My fingers are crossed that it really has been as well-considered as both Niche grinders. Really outstanding products are so rare, it would be quite nice to see another.

                          I hope your price estimate is correct. Given what we have seen, I am assuming US $1,500 to$ 1,800. If it fulfills both performance and build quality expectations this would be a very fair price, and keenly competitive with both Option-O and Zerno.

                            HarveyMushman I’m more than happy to pile in on the Philos if the price estimate is what the rumours have been saying of £999.

                            I’m hoping Bella Barista will be a dealer, as I’m happy to go up the M1 and see it in action.

                            If it delivers at the right price and workflow for me, I’ll do a short, mid and long term review.

                            The other interesting part to the Philos will be the day one burr swappers. Very interested to see where that rabbit hole goes.

                                Verion I’m more than happy to pile in on the Philos if the price estimate is what the rumours have been saying of £999.

                                I’m hoping Bella Barista will be a dealer, as I’m happy to go up the M1 and see it in action.

                                When I spoke to Luigi Mazzer (Giovani Mazzers son) VP of Mazzer, he said that there would be an initial offer of that price (I think in Euro) delivered as a launch offer, but wouldn’t last long. Also that this grinder is to be sold direct, not through retailers.

                                It may be they change their mind on this of course, but those were the plans at the time of Host Milan 23 (October)

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                                    Verion I lost interest in burr swapping in grinders designed for specific burrs, excepting applauding Tom’s project.

                                    When I thought about it, there was no reason a third-party burr would be an improvement, just different, and likely worse. There’s no secret sauce in burr design, and there’s no reason to think that a burr designed to be universal, will outperform those carefully selected by the grinder engineering team and integrated as part of a specific grinder system (RPM, etc).

                                    My interest in the WUG is a special instance as it does both conical and flat and therefore could serve as a platform specifically for burr comparisons.

                                    Niche Duo and the Mazzer Philos do have my attention because each offer two burr selections that are optimized for different results within the same grinder system. This saves me a lot of time, money and gear-thought leaving more of all for coffee.

                                      I had to buy my Mazzer hand grinder direct from them in Italy.. with all the addtional costs (though it was a very painfree process as long you had worked out the final price upfront)

                                      Though with a electrical grinder I cannot but think warranty support and returns will be more painful if there is no local distributor in the UK to liaise with.

                                        MattH I wondered about this as the Omega X seems not to be sold by US retailers; available through Mazzer directly.

                                          DavecUK When I spoke to Luigi Mazzer (Giovani Mazzers son) VP of Mazzer, he said that there would be an initial offer of that price (I think in Euro) delivered as a launch offer, but wouldn’t last long.

                                          This might change things a bit. £200 VAT, shipping and the inevitable ‘handling charge’ slapped on by the carrier and it’s suddenly a ~£1300 grinder.

                                          I can understand the launch price offer but not having a retail distribution network feels like it might hurt more than it helps, especially for the markets well outside of Europe. Strange choice as I think this grinder could do incredibly well if it was widely available. I guess factoring in a retailer’s cut, Mazzer would need to increase the price to reflect it.

                                          La Marzocco Linea Mini - Mazzer Philos

                                          Ikawa Roaster

                                              DavecUK I don’t blame them for wanting to go ‘sold direct’. It also allows them to control their supply chain for one.

                                              HarveyMushman If in the event it heads towards £1,300, it’s on par with the Olympia Moca SD from a UK supplier (but without a UK warranty or RTB) and less than the Lagom P64 including VAT, shipping and handling charge.

                                              I can hold tight. I’m not desperate to move away from my Niche Zero.