Niche Duo - problems or bias?

JammyDodger I’d be very interested to hear your thoughts on the matter

I have both the Niche Zero and the Duo, although I call mine Uno as I don’t drink filter coffee - so the whole concept swapping burrs for me is a moot point.

Despite having owned conical and flat burr grinders in the past, for years I kept reading that flat burrs are better than conicals and vice versa. So, when the Uno launched (read: Niche started selling the grinders with only one burr set) I went ahead and bought one.

Hen you may ask - why? Why didn’t I buy a df64, or a Lagon P64, or a Monolith? Simple: for the last two, price. It’s just a little bit more than what I would want to pay for a coffee grinder I used twice daily. For the df64, I read good and not so good things about it, and, at least at the time, the only option was to modify the grinder so it works well.

So, for me, the Uno was the right grinder as I wasn’t interested in swapping burrs (SSP this, SSP that, bla bla bla). I just wanted to grind coffee with a flat burr grinder without having to puff air through the chamber (bellows), removing chute screens, “hot starting” etc, etc. I wanted to put coffee beans in, turn he grinder on and grind away. For me, the Duo gives me exactly that, and I knew that, unlike other grinders, it’s been tested for a couple of years before being rolled out from the production line.

So yeah… boring. But it works, and it works well, for me at least. 😊👍

Have I had problems? Not yet. Could I potentially save myself half of the cost and have the same result in the cup with another flat burr grinder, 64mm or anything else? Probably.

I’ve been on the home coffee journey for 10 years or so, and I’ve been resolutely a hand grinder user until this year. The reason is that I have an obsession with things that “just work”, and especially with a human connection. I use razors which are over a hundred years old, and clockwork cameras. My espresso machines have all been levers (currently the Cafelat Robot, but previously Cremina, Caravel and Ponte Vecchio).

In that context, the Duo is my first electric grinder, and quite an unusual purchase for me. I’m the sort of person who gets niggled by electric devices generally. And I am slightly niggled, but only by the centre screw that occasionally comes loose and needs a tighten. Niche didn’t seem particularly interested in resolving that.

Other than that, the Duo has been easily the best grinder I’ve ever owned, beating the HG One, Roscoe, Comandante, Mazzer and 1zpresso hand grinders by a country mile. It is also the first FLAT grinder I’ve ever owned, so I suppose it’s possible I just like flat burrs, but I doubt it.

I’ve only used it for espresso a couple of times, sticking mostly to filter, which has been a really interesting voyage of new flavour separation that just wasn’t there before. I’d buy it again, although I might have stuck to filter only (who knows though, perhaps I’ll get back into espresso again). That screw though….

Will I buy again?

Yes, if money is not a factor.

I am indeed on the look out for another electric for my daughter, who is mainly into espresso. Financing her purchase will be one of the main criteria.

JammyDodger I can’t believe they took your Niche apart! Unbelievable!

Well the person who did that and trashed the grinder had a huge amount of personal bias…his side-line was selling used lever machines and grinders….especially grinders. His used super jolly sales probably slumped shortly after the Niche Zero came out. He and his mates did their best to talk down the original Niche Zero, but funny enough, they couldn’t stop it becoming a huge success.

JammyDodger - I’m near J13 on the M4 if it helps. Happy to show you both grinders side by side! 👍

JammyDodger My experience thus far is yes, there is a small vocal group of people who actively and for the most part inaccurately attack Niche the company, the Duo or both. I have stopped reacting or attempting to educate any of them. I do however wish that moderators on those forums responded to obvious distortions of facts.

dfk41 They claimed they had sourced the motor for $5 on Aliexpress. This of course was total nonsense as the motor is custom wound but it did not stop them.

I’m not knocking the Niche - a happy owner, but I reckon that price for the motor seems about right, perhaps even less when ordering in the quantities that Niche is.

There is no magic in the motor, it will be ordered to a specific specification which is what people will be referring to when they claim it is custom wound, that’s normal practice.

From the teardowns I’ve seen Niche are sourcing the motors from a variety of Chinese suppliers. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if some of these ended up on Aliexpress, often happens due to supplier overstock and also not unknown for suppliers to dump stuff on AliExpress that was rejected by the intended customers.

Gagaryn Let us just suppose you are right then matey, and the motors whether custom specified or not cost circa $5…….are you aware of very many failing? I do not know how many units the Zero has sold but it must be tens of thousands. @1% per 10,000 fail rate, that is 100 units. I cannot say with certainty but on the various forums etc that Niche are discussed on, I have not seem 100 units reported as having failed with motor issues. This would suggest that they are doing something right with the motors?

dfk41 It’s quite a leap of logic to imply that I suggested any motors were failing! I said they would be getting the motors built to a defined specification; that’s a good thing and equates to “doing something right with the motors”. :-)

dfk41 Sorry to hijak your post! Had a question about a piece of your gear - the Caravel. Wasn’t sure if it sold yet. Pinged the post a couple of days back.

Gagaryn Sorry if I was not clear. I was not implying that you did say the motors had a history of failing. What I was saying, was whether a $5 Aliexpress special, or something else, Niche seem to have the motor correct. The motor came in for special criticism by ‘the cabal’. I do not know if you were around in those days to witness the intimidation and nastiness that was chucked at folks associated with Niche. Dave came in for special treatment by the bullying pack. What they failed to recognise, was that making a grinder sub £500 that was as close to design perfection as you could get (sure some dislike the colours, some want a hopper, some want flat burrs) drove him on. This is exactly the same as the same mob, mainly pro Londinium people carried on their attack when news of the Evo Leva started to circulate. Look what happened there. And remember, if there had been no Evo Leva then the Nurri, much loved by some would never have seen the light of day

It seems that the “politeness filter” that most people have for in person conversation is removed for some people, online. Any core values that we all treasure just disappear, particularly if they are anonymous. I once subsequently met a terrible on-line troll in person and was amazed that his in person behavior was relatively friendly. So I just do not participate in online conversations that involve any form of mean spirited debate. And I am very careful about everything that I write and post in a public venue, as anything I post can impact others, along with my own reputation.

DavecUK Just to correct some speculation.

The motors don’t cost $5, they are more.
Normal practice is not custom wound (and other customisations), people generally take what is the standard motors and gear it to suit, or get close to their requirements.
I believe they work closely with1 supplier to ensure quality and specification. None of the motors for Niche are dumped on Aliexpress, or available to anyone but Niche.

A lot of generally and believes in that, sounds like you are correcting speculation with more speculation :-).

I’m not questioning the quality of the motors - I never have! But I’m afraid the claim that Niche are doing something unique or special by having motors built to their specifications just isn’t correct - contrary to your claim, that is normal manufacturing practice and there are dozens of suppliers in China (and elsewhere) geared up and ready to build motors to whatever specification the customer demands - it’s exactly their business model and motor manufacturing is a huge market. Minimum order quantities with many of these suppliers is magnitudes smaller than Niche will be ordering - for both modified catalogue parts and blueprint builds.

Anyway - I’m out now ahead of the inevitable pile on and claims that I’m an idiot and don’t know what I’m talking about as wasn’t party to design process etc. etc.