Hey team! I hope you all had super Christmases and are all still semi-comatose from too much Christmas pudding and charades. The Duo is a grinder that really interests me, and I have nearly bought one on two separate occasions. The reason for not having pushed the button yet is due to some of the comments on a different forum based a little further away from home. Several users have complained of shaking grinders, burr wobble or misalignment, and have started an opinion that a 64mm burr would be a ‘better’ choice. How they know what is better for me in anyone’s guess, but it does give me pause for thought. From reading through almost 80 pages of comments on two separate threads, it seems to me as though most actual users of a Duo are very happy. There is a small minority of Niche users so have decided for reasons usually related to quality control that the unit isn’t for them. Lastly there are a fairly suitable number of users who seem to have simply taken umbrage with the simple fact the Duo exists at all. The first and second sets of users, those who like and dislike the product having used it, I can understand and appreciate hearing from. The last group though, I’m surprised at. I appreciate that the internet is full of self-proclaimed ‘experts’ hiding behind a veil of anonymity, most of which will never have even handled the product let alone used it, but this seems different to me. I couldn’t help but feel there was some form of negative bias against the Niche Duo on reading over the threads, but am not sure if this was a misconception due to the alarming quantity of mine pies I’ve put away over the past week, or if anyone else has felt this too? I’d be very interested to hear your thoughts on the matter, and if it is happening to a greater extent than other products, why this may be the case.

I've only used it for filter. Negatives: - No locking mechanism to hold shaft in place while tightening screw. - 83mm burrs are more expensive than 64mm. - Extra burr carriers are not purchaseable. ( This makes swapping burrs no different than other machines. With extra burr carriers it would be super simple.) - Burr carriers were not designed to work with non-mazzer 83 burrs. Some shimming may be required. Really, all the negatives that I see could be solved with aftermarket burr carriers (currently none available).

For me the Duo is the best grinder that I've had on my bench, and I've had 30 plus over the last three years. I agree with @"Loonster"#637 that it's a missed opportunity for us consumers when we can't buy extra burr carriers. Even those who bought a Duo with just the one burr set can't buy a second burr carrier. Having played with a lot of different burr sets in the Duo, I understand better why Niche do not want to encourage burr swapping but I certainly wish they'd relent and sell the burr carriers on their own.

I left two forums over the duo. On home barista there is a guy called malling who is a burr expert by all accounts. He was telling me and others what the duo was before he had one, he was very vocal. But still bought one and still has it. I think On the discord forum there were two other users, one was moaning about wobble and that the grinder wasn't balanced. He got into a massive argument with me, he was offered a full refund. He kept the duo and said it was better than his brand new kafatec, the other user still has his duo after he shimmed it. Is it a perfect grinder no, is it easy to use and reliable yes. I've had two with no issues, it's set and forget for me, I think the lack of hype this time round is simply because those who had the zero got a duo and it's just like an iPhone upgrade, near identical experience but better, so it feels very familiar to the point people just use them.

> @"JammyDodger"#p58642 I’d be very interested to hear your thoughts on the matter I have both the Niche Zero and the Duo, although I call mine Uno as I don’t drink filter coffee - so the whole concept swapping burrs for me is a moot point. Despite having owned conical and flat burr grinders in the past, for years I kept reading that flat burrs are better than conicals and vice versa. So, when the Uno launched (read: Niche started selling the grinders with only one burr set) I went ahead and bought one. Hen you may ask - why? Why didn’t I buy a df64, or a Lagon P64, or a Monolith? Simple: for the last two, price. It’s just a little bit more than what I would want to pay for a coffee grinder I used twice daily. For the df64, I read good and not so good things about it, and, at least at the time, the only option was to modify the grinder so it works well. So, for me, the Uno was the right grinder as I wasn’t interested in swapping burrs (SSP this, SSP that, bla bla bla). I just wanted to grind coffee with a flat burr grinder without having to puff air through the chamber (bellows), removing chute screens, “hot starting” etc, etc. I wanted to put coffee beans in, turn he grinder on and grind away. For me, the Duo gives me exactly that, and I knew that, unlike other grinders, it’s been tested for a couple of years before being rolled out from the production line. So yeah… boring. But it works, and it works well, for me at least. 😊👍 Have I had problems? Not yet. Could I potentially save myself half of the cost and have the same result in the cup with another flat burr grinder, 64mm or anything else? Probably.

I've been on the home coffee journey for 10 years or so, and I've been resolutely a hand grinder user until this year. The reason is that I have an obsession with things that "just work", and especially with a human connection. I use razors which are over a hundred years old, and clockwork cameras. My espresso machines have all been levers (currently the Cafelat Robot, but previously Cremina, Caravel and Ponte Vecchio). In that context, the Duo is my first electric grinder, and quite an unusual purchase for me. I'm the sort of person who gets niggled by electric devices generally. And I am slightly niggled, but only by the centre screw that occasionally comes loose and needs a tighten. Niche didn't seem particularly interested in resolving that. Other than that, the Duo has been easily the best grinder I've ever owned, beating the HG One, Roscoe, Comandante, Mazzer and 1zpresso hand grinders by a country mile. It is also the first FLAT grinder I've ever owned, so I suppose it's possible I just like flat burrs, but I doubt it. I've only used it for espresso a couple of times, sticking mostly to filter, which has been a really interesting voyage of new flavour separation that just wasn't there before. I'd buy it again, although I might have stuck to filter only (who knows though, perhaps I'll get back into espresso again). That screw though….

Thanks everyone, really good to hear your thoughts and benefit from your collective wisdom. It seems like a really good option for someone like me who wants a flat-burr grinder and currently uses a Niche Zero.

@"JammyDodger"#789 My experience is given in detail on my thread below if you have time and patience to read. 😁 Summary: I had an opportunity to test the Duo as one of the real world users before it was released. Without going into the details, I did not. I placed an order for the Duo with both burrs on 1 April — the day it was released. I come from a hand-grinder family. I wanted a grinder that simply works without any inconvenient workflow and mods both for espresso and filter. I could have saved lots of money if I had taken a different route. I liked the idea of swappable burrs on a daily basis - like 2 - 4 times a day. I enjoyed doing that for 6 weeks. I had grown out of it and no longer do this for two reasons. * The filter from Duo’s filter burrs set is a class act. It spoiled me to an extent that both myself and my wife, who still drinks instant, like the filter more than the Americano from the espresso burrs set for reasons of clarity, flavour, … * I did not enjoy the daily swapping of burrs anymore after 6 weeks of swapping a few times a day. In short, we like the coffee from the Duo. The filter has become our daily driver and the espresso for the week end or when we have guests at home. I don’t see this pattern changing. https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/d/1851-coffee-with-duo/272

Will I buy again? Yes, if money is not a factor. I am indeed on the look out for another electric for my daughter, who is mainly into espresso. Financing her purchase will be one of the main criteria.

Thinking about your original question…….there was a tremendous bias shown against the Duo as there was against the Zero. But both grinders have shone through. The Zero was responsible for the turn towards single dosing and the Duo has followed suit. Why does such bias exist? In the old days it was mainly due to people having alliances with other companies, running scared at the prospect of competition. Nowadays the problem is more complex. You do not hear so much from the knockers now as the products are mature. I remember so well, when the Zero came out one member on another forum, well known to all of us asking me if he could borrow my Zero as he did not want to buy one but really did want to have a go with one. I duly obliged. What he did, was strip the machine down and then with his cabal of buddies start to rip it to shreds. They claimed they had sourced the motor for $5 on Aliexpress. This of course was total nonsense as the motor is custom wound but it did not stop them. There must be a Duo owner near to you @"JammyDodger"#789. Post your post code and see if anyone invites you over

@"dfk41"#4 - I can’t believe they took your Niche apart! Unbelievable! Some people are never happy it seems. Great idea to ask around if anyone has one locally. I’m based in Bristol and happy to drive to anyone kind enough to show me their Duo. Thanks guys!

Niche Duo - problems or bias?

dfk41

chlorox which I understand from the forums to be no5 the mazzer burrs’ forte since it really is tailored for a traditional dark roast Italian type espresso which i have moved away mostly from.

That is nonsense, in my humble. People on forums are presuming an Italian made grinder popular in Italy is made for the type of beans favourable within the country…..there are some big leaps there matey. Has anyone ever told you not to believe everything you see on the internet?

chlorox

dfk41

This seems to be the view of mazzer itself since they appear to be marketing the new burrs made for the philos to be their first fir the contemporary taste that favours lighter roasts?

dfk41

chlorox If that be the case, how do you jump to all other Mazzer burrs must be made for Italian style roasts? Frankly, I do not accept that there are as many super tasters around as folks claim.

Cuprajake

id love to be in a position to blind taste all these burrs back to back, as burrs are only one part of the whole,

DavecUK

LMSC Doesn’t the SSP HU give a brighter cup than the Mazzer?

Not really…the Mazzer burrs are fine with light or dark roasts and are perhaps not as “one dimensional” as the SSPs. I don’t know really where all this Mazzer burrs perform best with dark roasts comes from….and the proper evidence supporting that. I have not noticed much difference between SSP HU burrs and the 151B mazzers with light roasts. Sure it’s a little different, but no way £300 better. It’s also not consistent…with some light roast coffees Mazzer can be a little better, with others SSP can be a little better.

LMSC

DavecUK SSP HU burrs and the 151B mazzers with light roasts. Sure it’s a little different, but no way £300 better.

That £300 would fund an electric for my daughter. I know it is difficult to justify with dr’s salary! 😊

DavecUK with some light roast coffees Mazzer can be a little better, with others SSP can be a little better.

I believe you have been testing the SSP’s. Are you able to share examples of SO’s where Mazzers and SSPs could be better please?

Thx

tompoland

FWIW, my opinion, my taste buds, etc: the stock Mazzer 151B burrs in the Duo offer an espresso that is enjoyable and is unlikely to offend anyone. Silky smooth, balanced, nuanced. Conservative, mainstream, dependable and quite forgiving when dialling in.

The SSP Espresso (HU) offer a much brighter/acidic, more intense espresso with light and ultra light beans. And it will have its lovers and its haters (“if I wanted to taste lemon I’d drink lemonade”). Add a narrower sweet spot range so a bit more faff dialling in.

The 64mm SSP Espresso delivers the same as the 83mm version. Lance and James might be able to tell the difference but I can’t.

Petre

I use a Duo for espresso with standard burrs now. The initial plan was to put SSP HU in the filter burr carrier but that failed miserably. I managed to shim both burrs, but after getting mixed results for SSP, I noticed the shaft was actually flexing a bit if pushed by hand. Also, not super happy that the top burr carrier comes in contact with the collar through a plastic with questionable tolerances. In fact, the collar came from the factory with a small defect that put a groove into the carrier plastic. I dropped all the plans with SSP since these burrs need to go really close to the touching point and need good alignment in order to get there. So basically IMO not super sturdy design for this kinds of mods. If you must have SSP I would go with something else like Mazzer major or DF83 although I have not used the latter.

But used with standard burrs works super fine and it’s very easy to dial in with and give shots very balanced and nice for me most of the time.

Also, from what I played with SSP HU 83 (in mazzer major), the only way I would use it again is if I would have a secondary grinder. Basically in 95% of cases Mazzer standrard burrs tastes way more balanced and nicer. And in 5% of cases SSP could produce a more complex flavour after a tedious dial in. In rest, it just gives me way too acidic shots especially in natural processed beans which always tasted horrible. I know these results may vary based on roast level, I used mostly light roasts but a friend which mostly drink medium to dark seem to enjoy SSP HU 64 in a DF.

DavecUK

Petre Also, not super happy that the top burr carrier comes in contact with the collar through a plastic with questionable tolerances. In fact, the collar came from the factory with a small defect that put a groove into the carrier plastic. I dropped all the plans with SSP since these burrs need to go really close to the

Could you elaborate on this…

tompoland

Petre I know these results may vary based on roast level,

Definitely varies based on taste buds too!

Re the groove in the plastic. The SSP Espresso (HU) burrs are 0.125mm thicker than the Mazzer 151b stock burrs. The Duo is build to very fine tolerances and I’m wondering if that extra thickness might explain the groove in the plastic?

I have used SSP burrs (HU, MP, Cast) in my experimental Duo (the one I use for burr swapping tests) and they performed well but if I were to go to Niche with an issue such as a groove in the carrier they would unfortunately, but quite rightly, point out that the use of non stock burrs voids the warranty.

Sticking to stock burrs saves some headaches, for sure. But the SSP and most of the Mazzer k151 series seem to perform relatively free of malfunctions. Avoid Ceado, DF, Fiorenzato burrs in the Duo, they are all too thin.

Petre

The collar presses on this plastic to adjust the burr gap. You can also see the groove I was saying about.

DavecUK

Petre The plastic tolerances are pretty good…the groove (if it’s a defect with the hopper bottom) will at least be evenly worn, so shouldn’t affect alignment. I would still recommend you send details to Niche.

So they know about it
Can send you new parts if that’s thought necessary.

LMSC

We know the whole upper burr carrier goes down when you press it down. I normally depress this while tightening the hopper.

I am not sure I understand what you had indicated. If my understanding is correct, the carrier is optimised to fit the mazzer. The other burrs set may not fit well.

Don’t you brew with the filter burrs? The filter is awesome, and in-fact, it spoiled me completely to an extent that it has become our daily driver. The poor Evo is now relegated to the week-end duty. 😁

Petre

LMSC I did not see a fitting problem in the carrier, SSP actually fitted well. I just did not see the point in trying to align within 20 microns if the shaft can move maybe 200 if pressed by hand. This actually does not seem to affect the performance of the original burrs, which seems to work fine and consistent and actually I prefer them over SSP in most of the cases.

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