My beloved Huky is showing its age (14 years old). Both probes, the K type yoke and the analog gauge failing to register, I’m now"flying blind". And, sounding like the advance of Cetewayo’s warriors in “Zulu”, there’s an ominous rumbling from the bearings. Retirement beckons, methinks.. Question is, what do I buy next? I’m tempted to the Aillo Bullet, despite the massive price tag. But will the state-of-the-art complexity bring problems down the line? What’s reliability of the induction system like? The Cormorant appeals, in that it’s only a slightly tricked up counterpart of my current roaster and there wouldn’t be much of a learning curve. I favour the electric version but from reading threads on this forum it sounds like it is a tad under-engineered, with flaky IR tubes. Or perhaps there is a machine out there that I have missed? Apart from reliability and consistent roasting performance, my wants are few. Software link up capability, obviously. 500 G charge capacity. And I do like to have a few buttons to push and knobs to tweak, I like techie stuff. Informed opinion welcome and thanks, in advance, for all help received.

ValentinoAzzurro I you want a techie vibe, I guess the bullet might suit you….I also so some other roasters at hHost 23 that have been around a while. The Roest looked quite good, but the middle model only roasts 200g max. https://www.roestcoffee.com/ Or the up to 750g capacity Kaledo M6 https://www.kaleido-coffee.com/product-list/kaleido-sniper-m6-series

Why not another Huky? I’ve been running mine for six or seven years now and would probably buy another one if it died.

There was a great post about the Arc 800 recently. https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/d/2253-review-of-the-arc-800-rtd-roaster

thusband Good question. In fact it would probably make the most sense to say “same again”. But I self-learned long ago that a fascination with technology and a fondness for acquiring new gear is an indelible part of my persona. Cameras, guitars, coffee equipment, same difference. I might be a saner (and richer)man if I’d stuck with my Zenith 3M, Yamaha FG30 and Gaggia Classic but, hey, I’ve had fun.

ValentinoAzzurro I know the feeling. I almost bought a Cormorant a few years ago but went for a Lelit Bianca instead.

HarveyMushman Drool,drool…. But at a likely price somewhere topside of €6,000 the Arc 800 would be way beyond my budget. Even were it not there is still the small matter of shoehorning it into my second kitchen that already contains (besides the Huky which is considerably smaller) a freezer, a sous vide tank, a mincer, a sausage stuffer, an ice cream machine and a pasta maker. All of which, with deep regrets, puts the Arc out of court. Thanks for the “heads up” anyway.

DavecUK Thanks for that Dave. I am actually leaning quite hard in the direction of the Bullet - I think if the price was around €2800 I’d probably have bought one by now. The induction system certainly seems more durable than infrared tubes and the like. The Roest looks interesting but, like the Arc, is way above my budget. I know nothing about the Kaleido, so I’ll do some homework. Have you had any truck with them? There is something intriguing about a machine that looks as though it’s walked straight out of a 1970s sci-fi movie!

On the Bullet, I’ve been tempted too but I remember @tompoland saying it was overpriced, he might be able to offer further comment on why.

ValentinoAzzurro I know nothing about the Kaleido, so I’ll do some homework. Have you had any truck with them? There is something intriguing about a machine that looks as though it’s walked straight out of a 1970s sci-fi movie! I have not ever tried one, but every european (Italian) coffee exhibition I go to…they are there.

HarveyMushman ooh not sure I would have said that Harvey. Perhaps something like “there are less expensive options” or “dang, it hurt to pay that much!”. I’ve had mine coming up three years and it did NOT work out of the box due to a faulty bean probe but that was diagnosed by the retailer quick smart and replacement was fast and easy. Its really been great and I love the 1kg capacity (which in reall terms means 800g). But yes, there are less expensive ways to get into roasting I’m sure. However if you have the budget and are roasting around 800g per week, by my calculations the bullet paid for itself in around 18 months (versus buying roasted beans) and it’s the one machine in my coffee suite that genuinely saves money.

MY NEXT ROASTER Bullet, Cormorant (Gas or Lekky?) or Wha'?

tompoland

HarveyMushman

Ah the plot thickens.

Great detective work, you and @MediumRoastSteam are keeping me on my toes.

That post was in response to @JHCCoffee asking for advice on buying a roaster with the context of “Max $1,000 Cdn, hopefully much less”.

Hence: “while I can wholeheartedly recommend it, the price is too high”.

What a difference conext makes!

tompoland

ValentinoAzzurro small maximum charge (100g)

That would drive me nuts 🙃

I think it makes more sense as a small batch sample roaster. Heck, I can easily destroy 60 - 80g dialling in a new bean!

tompoland

HarveyMushman you manage keep the smoke outdoors via that venting method?

Yes it works surprisingly well.

And I have a wife who, whilst extraordinarily tolerant of the buying and selling of grinders, is at the other end of the spectrum when it comes to odours.

I roast in a room that was designed to be a home office space, so inside the house. I just shut the door while roasting and whilstnthere is so e rssidual odour itndossnt linger long.

The extraction fan is a cheapie off ebay.

The aluminium ducting is from an electrical supplies wholesaler (although the local giant hardware store had them too).

The O ring clamps are from the aforementioned hardware store.

The desktop arm holding up the “chimney” was an unused microphone stand.

The chimney itself was a old Tupperware container that my wife is probably still looking for (better to ask for forgiveness than permission).

And the only other ingredient is copious quantities of duct tape.

MediumRoastSteam

tompoland 1x roast per week saving 40 - 17 = 33 per week or 1,716 per annum.

5,000 / 33 = 3 years pay off. Not the 18 months that I remembered but still not too shabby.

Caught another mistake. 40 - 17 = 23, not 33. Therefore 1,196 per annum. 5,000 / 33 = 217 weeks or approx. 4 years. 😉

Regardless, in the grand scheme of things, not too bad. 👍

HarveyMushman

@MediumRoastSteam

The maths for me are swayed by favouring apparently expensive roasters. Ozone, Newground, AllPress etc, their SO’s are £40-45 a kilo. We get through 2kg a month.

I just had a look and I can buy greens from the exact same region as one of the coffees currently on offer above for £7 a kilo. I’m seeing approx 11% loss on roasting although that might be due to smaller batches and lighter roasts than Tom.

There’s definitely savings to be made in the longer term.

@tompoland that’s great, thanks! Glad to hear it works well, I’m certainly keen to get a bigger capacity roaster to pair with the Ikawa and the Bullet ticks the boxes.

MediumRoastSteam

HarveyMushman There’s definitely savings to be made in the longer term.

No doubt. As demonstrated. I was just curious about the 18 months return of investment.

As for the difference in price between toasted in greens.. just because they are the same region doesn’t mean they are the same price. They can be from different farms, different grade, different processing etc. However, nothing stops a roaster buying a £7 per kilo as greens and selling for £40 or £45 roasted. 👍

When unused to roast and buy greens, there was a group on FB which bought by the sack and then very kindly shared, so it made it affordable. At the time, about 2 years ago, I’d say a decent coffee was about £7-£9 per kg, those usually retailing roasted for £30-£33 or so from what I could gather. More fancy stuff like anaerobic fermented naturals Central American “boozy” coffee could be had for £12-£14 per kilo. IMMV.

Platypus

tompoland
I’ll back your version. “It’ll pay for itself within 18 months” has much higher odds of being signed off 😉

ValentinoAzzurro

Platypus I’m already inventing plausible price porkies for if I splurge on The Bullet😎

DavecUK

Jusst remember the bullet is quite needy on cleaning maintnance…

tompoland

DavecUK FWIW…

I know “ quite needy” is a relative thing. And I haven’t had another roaster before the bullet. So it may very well require more work compared to others.

What I can say though is that despite me having ten thumbs and no fingers, I found it relatively simple and not especially time consuming. I’m not suggesting Dave is incorrect because I haven’t had experience of other roasters which might be much simpler and faster to clean and maintain.

I remove the chaff collector once a month which takes about two minutes. It’s simply clips off and then I shake it out in the garden.

The little window needs cleaning and the bean probe should be cleaned once a month but I’m probably only doing it every three months. The last part does need a screwdriver. But it’s really not that daunting and I guess it’s a ten minute job.

The instructional videos have been very helpful and when I needed to replace the bean probe I felt a bit intimidated by the idea. But I needn’t have been because the whole thing has been built-in such a way that it’s easy to disassemble and there’s pretty much only one way it goes back together again.

ValentinoAzzurro

hello@“DavecUK”#1 Yes. That’s one of the things that, in all honesty, I find a bit daunting. The designers seem to have gone out of their way to ensure that no unauthorised person gets inside the machine. Watching some of the maintenance videos I gained the impression that I would be spending as much time with a screwdriver as I would with Artisan!
Sometimes I think I was shamefully neglectful of the Huky, but it did run like clockwork for 13 years, with minimal attention. I was scrupulous about the vacuuming, attacking it after and before every roast with my handheld Ryobi and paying particular attention to the gas burner base (supplied), which wasn’t a terribly good match for the machine. You had to do, else it was a potential fire raiser. The Huki was quite a chaff chucker and not particularly careful about where it chucked it - maybe because it was one of the early models with the perfed drum. Sometimes chaff would appear as if from nowhere, mid roast, settling on the front edge of the burner in chunks and if you didn’t get rid instantly it could flare up like November 5th..
Apart from vaccing and the occasional blob of lubricant,I left well alone and the machine rewarded this ingratitude with years of faithful service.
If I get The Bullet I know I shall have to change my ways.

HarveyMushman

This is a bit of a left field suggestion but perhaps a new Huky and an Ikawa or KaffeeLogic as well?

The former would serve as a reliable, larger capacity roaster with the latter an opportunity to experiment with a more tech-led solution.

I recently described the Ikawa as the Apple product of roasters in that it’s an incredibly well-designed product and user experience which can be ‘one button’ simple through to somewhat more involved with custom roast profiles.

Both can also be used quite happily with a cooker hood or open window.

Not sure what your consumption is like but I roast 600g a week on the Ikawa which is two sessions of 25-30 mins. As I understand it the Bullet has a warmup time of about 25 mins so whilst the 100g capacity of the sample roasters might be initially off putting, it’s not as arduous to roast multiple batches on as it might seem.

ValentinoAzzurro

HarveyMushman thanks for that. I was momentarily tempted by your highly creative solution until I did the maths and realised that’s a new Huky + an Ikawa Home.Kafeelogic Nano cost-wise would be well up in Bullet territory, possibly even a bit more.
Most of the time I roast 500 g every six days - never quite lasts the week. Some weeks if we have guests over, friends staying or the arrival of my increasingly coffee centric grandson I might need a second roast.

Not entirely sure about your Apple metaphor. I have had a love/hate relationship going with Apple since 1990. This has continued to the present day when the Dark Lady of my Sonnets and myself have amassed a collection comprising two IMacs, three MacBook pros, three iPads, two iPhones and Apple Watch, all of which are used for specific tasks. Back in the day Apple were the good guys, restless innovators who stood up to the might of Microsoft and forced the pace of technology. These days they are just churning out bloat fodder- every trumpeted innovation just serves to eat up memory, while defects in the hardware are ignored. How much, for god’s sake, would it cost for them to put on a hinge that actually works without slipping on the iMac monitor?

Sorry, rant over. Thanks for your continuing help.

Mattius2

I’ve had 3 very happy years with my (gas) Cormorant. Roast in a garage with venting. Deep cleaned it once I think. Doing 2-3kg a month. Not even halfway down a gas cylinder it sips it.

The lack of traffic in the FB ‘by the sack’ Green Buying Collective group since the main instigator went back to New Zealand is a bummer…

HarveyMushman

Fair comments, Apple have been industry standard in my line of work since the 90s so I’ve had to be fairly loyal to them although wouldn’t disagree that they lost their design/innovation edge when Jony Ive left. Also the ability of modern mobile phones to service 99% of the average user’s digital needs meant they sort of lost their way in the home computer market. Their M1/M2 chips are very impressive, although probably irrelevant for the domestic market.

Without the Apple comparison I just meant the Ikawa is a very sleek product and process. Smartly designed unit with clever chaff collection and cooling, very well made in the UK and a brilliant app. The latter being the bit these things usually fall down on. They catch a bit of stick for having a subscription model on the fully-featured graph editor which is fair enough but the whole experience is efficient and enjoyable.

Depending on roast level, 500g would take about 50-60 mins from switching it on to putting it away. The compromise is that you’d need to charge the hopper at the end of each 100g roast but you can preload it while it roasts and just drop the beans once a batch is ejected. The bonus is you get incredibly consistent, even roasting and a unit that doesn’t require ducting and quite happily fits in a cupboard.

I appreciate the limitations though and on paper it’s not really a replacement for a 500-1kg roaster.

kilo

I roast with a Bullet since 2016. It is ,for a coffee roaster , pretty high tech. Potentially a lot can go wrong. ( like with a car) But usually not much goes wrong. And if so, Aillio provides great service.

I clean about 15 minutes after every 2 kg roasting and additional 10 minutes after 6 kg. It is not difficult to maintain the Bullet. Good and frequent cleaning is essential to let the roaster perform well.

If you roast for your own use, the maintenance is not an issue in my opinion. If you use the Bullet for professional roasting, like some do, the ratio time spent vs coffee roasted could be a point of consideration.

Also you should check your possibilities to exhaust the roasting fumes. Roasting without a way to get the fumes out is a no no.

tompoland

kilo Thanks for this, helpful. I need to clean more often.

Your 2kg clean: what do you attend to with that and what gets attention at the 6kg mark?

Thanks.

kilo

At the 2 kg clean, I clean filter and chaff in the bean cooler, the window, the chaff receptor in the exhaust and I clean the chaff filter with Cafiza.

Then at 6 kilos also the exhaust fan with Cafiza and I clean de area around the exhaust fan.

The beanprobe and the IBTS sensor need some cleaning too once in a while. It seems to differ a lot between users. Some say they need frequent cleaning. I clean mine maybe after 30 kg or so.

If the ROR from the beanprobe crosses the ROR from the IBTS way before the end of the roast, the IBTS needs cleaning.

But maybe I do to much that is not needed, I like it tidy and shining.

ValentinoAzzurro

Eee-aye,Aillio, I’ve been and gone and done it!
My new Bullet is currently winging its way from Roast Rebels warehouse in Germany and should be here mid week. First off, a huge “thank you” to the Dark Lady of My Sonnets for opening the lock of her piggybank and making a significant contribution.
€3590 is a lot of money and in truth, I’ve bought cars for less. I still wake up with the odd “What if…?” in my head. Chief of which is "What if I pop my clogs before it’s paid for itself?"For the record @tompoland I’ve estimated this, at current consumption, as 3 years 10 months 🙁.
But then coffee is my hobby. I can’t stand up to my oxters for 3 hours in a trout stream any more; go on long hikes or chase after a football. The Bullet looks like being something technically demanding that will hold my interest while, at the same time enabling me to build on the knowledge I’ve already gained after umpteen years and several phases of coffee roasting.
Anyhow, a big shout out to @tompoland, @DavecUK, @HarveyMushman and everyone else who put up with my havering and quavering and fielded my questions with civilised aplomb. Of course, there may well be more Qs 😎

HarveyMushman

ValentinoAzzurro

Yes! Congrats on the purchase, sounds like a great choice! There’s an Ailio on my ‘at some point’ shopping list too so will be exciting to hear how you get on.

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