WDT and Tamping…
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Tried shaking the coffee in the grind cup this morning for about 20 seconds or so. Surprisingly, the espresso took longer to extract and tasted good. Not sure about the EY, but this method does seem to take away the need for deep WDT. ( I did puck rake though).
it is getting more and more ridiculous. instead of having a simple, smooth, relatively foolproof workflow - people are trying to make pulling a shot a ritual instead. As if only them know and can enjoy a good cup
delta76 - Well… You don’t need to do it. :-)
MediumRoastSteam I don’t. I just think it’s ridiculous, it is creating a barrier for people want to get into espresso IMO
Emc2 no I was saying in general, not specifically to the video. I tried to watch it but could not finish.
I am biased - because I like James a lot - but I wish we have more of this
in the end, his workflow is simple and easy. and it creates just as good espresso as with $200 moonraker whatever things. We (as the espresso world in general) are spending way too much time and money to optimize the last 1% where it could be gained much cheaper and easier else where.
delta76 - It’s all relative. You could argue that for some, when they see us with a machine on our couter top that weights 30kg and takes 35 minutes or so to warm up, weighing in and out, WDT (or stockflesh, or nswe or whatever we had back in the day) they must think we are just crazy insane.
You have to be happy with what works for you. If grind, tamp, pull works… Happy days. If you feel the need that things taste better adding further steps, happy days too.
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MediumRoastSteam if they make a quantifiable difference in cup quality (i.e. in blind test you have 8 out of 10 tasters agree that cup with this technique is better than cup with that technique), sure. but for now it seems like all added extra steps without any real benefits, just people think it does
delta76 - I do not disagree. Don’t forget that there’s a lot of people in this “hobby” with the main focus being the hobby itself - parameters, ratios, graphs, data in general - rather than a consistent and tasty cup of coffee every day - and that’s up to them. If that’s what floats their boat, then so be it. My goal is to:
- Get a nice cup of coffee twice a day, consistently.
- Without making a mess (both from grinders (static) and from the machine (channeling, spray);
- easy to clean my portafilter and basket after every shot;
- Easy to keep the machine clean.
So my routine is:
- dump pre-weighted dose into Niche hopper;
- Grind into Niche cup;
- Flip into basket;
- Use spyrographic tool (10 turns) to distribute;
- Tamp with Bravo tamper;
- Puck screen on top;
- Pull until desired weight.
For me, this works, and it seems consistent. For others, it might be too much, and no doubt, for some, too little.
Happy coffee! :-)
delta76 You would test amongst more than 10 tasters, these tasters would also need to be unaware of what the test was. Tests on this scale are rare in specialty coffee.
However, if you’re making coffee for yourself, friends and family you’re going to primarily be concerned with what you like. You don’t need to convince anyone else and you can do this easily. You can share what you do in good faith and others can try it, adopt it, or bin it. You won’t accidentally create a black hole that swallows the Earth 😄
delta76 We (as the espresso world in general) are spending way too much time and money to optimize the last 1% where it could be gained much cheaper and easier else where.
Nobody is doing this.
would shaking in the cup no move the fines to the bottom then inverting put the fines on top to clog?
i only wdt to distribute the grinds to be flatter as i cant palm tap for shit,
suppose its a kin the the poeple who wash cars then those whose who detail using a 100 step method. it appeals to different people,
Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -
good to know, ill be honest its not something ive taken too much notice in, can appreciate it but to me its over complicating things, next ill push back on to grinders and we will be finding a new king grinder, they miss the biggest key, everyone’s tastes are different.
id love them to re do this test now with all the info available
Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -
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I grind into the basket, which sits (with a dosing collar) on a block of wood on my Niche Zero. I WDT, don’t tap, I then tamp and pour. It works. I used to (when I used the wrong needles) have channeling issues but now don’t.
I serve myself and occasionally friends or family. I’m not a barista in a cafe. I don’t care whether I save or don’t save a minute in work flow. I do care about how my coffee tastes.
WDT works for me. IF a blind shaker significantly reduced the extent or risk of channeling than WDT and was significantly less faff than WDT, I might try it. But all I’ve seen is one sensational video by one pundit looking for continued fame and fortune. When and if more studies are done that prove that a blind shaker or other distribution method is more effective, I will try it.
I personally have found that WDT is more effective (for me) than hand distribution or tapping. I never got into using the Niche cup, though it works for many. I learned that wedge type distribution tools move too much coffee around (less grounds movement is in my experience generally better) and I do like a solid tamp.
But that’s what works for me. There are many ways to effectively distribute coffee into the PF basket, once you get good at it. What I do object to is folks getting too hot under the collar about their way. Or using pejorative words to criticize what I do (WDT or warming my basket/top screen) if I spend an extra minute or two making my coffee the way I like to make it.
And if I could get my buddy to actually put a measured dose of coffee into his PF and do better than a quick smoosh with one finger and pay attention to his brew ratio, in order to make a decent espresso with his Breville, that would be an achievement. But he just dumps coffee into his PF, tamps with the plastic tamper that came with the machine and pours until the shot cup looks full enough. Using stale coffee from Costco. But he’s happy with his coffee and otherwise enjoys life, so after my couple of polite suggestions were ignored, I just accept the coffee cup he gives me with thanks and compliments. Each to their own.