delta76 I I think the video was about making the workflow easier? Not having to do WDT will massively improve the workflow and make things easier for beginners.

    Emc2 Agreed I am hoping to reduce what (little) I already do 😂

    Emc2 no I was saying in general, not specifically to the video. I tried to watch it but could not finish.

    I am biased - because I like James a lot - but I wish we have more of this

    in the end, his workflow is simple and easy. and it creates just as good espresso as with $200 moonraker whatever things. We (as the espresso world in general) are spending way too much time and money to optimize the last 1% where it could be gained much cheaper and easier else where.

      delta76 - It’s all relative. You could argue that for some, when they see us with a machine on our couter top that weights 30kg and takes 35 minutes or so to warm up, weighing in and out, WDT (or stockflesh, or nswe or whatever we had back in the day) they must think we are just crazy insane.

      You have to be happy with what works for you. If grind, tamp, pull works… Happy days. If you feel the need that things taste better adding further steps, happy days too.

        MediumRoastSteam if they make a quantifiable difference in cup quality (i.e. in blind test you have 8 out of 10 tasters agree that cup with this technique is better than cup with that technique), sure. but for now it seems like all added extra steps without any real benefits, just people think it does

          delta76 - I do not disagree. Don’t forget that there’s a lot of people in this “hobby” with the main focus being the hobby itself - parameters, ratios, graphs, data in general - rather than a consistent and tasty cup of coffee every day - and that’s up to them. If that’s what floats their boat, then so be it. My goal is to:

          • Get a nice cup of coffee twice a day, consistently.
          • Without making a mess (both from grinders (static) and from the machine (channeling, spray);
          • easy to clean my portafilter and basket after every shot;
          • Easy to keep the machine clean.

          So my routine is:

          • dump pre-weighted dose into Niche hopper;
          • Grind into Niche cup;
          • Flip into basket;
          • Use spyrographic tool (10 turns) to distribute;
          • Tamp with Bravo tamper;
          • Puck screen on top;
          • Pull until desired weight.

          For me, this works, and it seems consistent. For others, it might be too much, and no doubt, for some, too little.

          Happy coffee! :-)

          delta76 You would test amongst more than 10 tasters, these tasters would also need to be unaware of what the test was. Tests on this scale are rare in specialty coffee.

          However, if you’re making coffee for yourself, friends and family you’re going to primarily be concerned with what you like. You don’t need to convince anyone else and you can do this easily. You can share what you do in good faith and others can try it, adopt it, or bin it. You won’t accidentally create a black hole that swallows the Earth 😄

          delta76 We (as the espresso world in general) are spending way too much time and money to optimize the last 1% where it could be gained much cheaper and easier else where.

          Nobody is doing this.

          would shaking in the cup no move the fines to the bottom then inverting put the fines on top to clog?

          i only wdt to distribute the grinds to be flatter as i cant palm tap for shit,

          suppose its a kin the the poeple who wash cars then those whose who detail using a 100 step method. it appeals to different people,

          Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

            Cuprajake The order in which you layer the puck was rudimentarily tested by Socratic and they didn’t find a difference in shot time, or EY depending whether finer grounds were on top, or bottom, mixed or control (no sorting). No tasting results.

            Cuprajake The fines move to the bottom anyways when pressure is applied.

            good to know, ill be honest its not something ive taken too much notice in, can appreciate it but to me its over complicating things, next ill push back on to grinders and we will be finding a new king grinder, they miss the biggest key, everyone’s tastes are different.

            id love them to re do this test now with all the info available

            Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

              I grind into the basket, which sits (with a dosing collar) on a block of wood on my Niche Zero. I WDT, don’t tap, I then tamp and pour. It works. I used to (when I used the wrong needles) have channeling issues but now don’t.

              I serve myself and occasionally friends or family. I’m not a barista in a cafe. I don’t care whether I save or don’t save a minute in work flow. I do care about how my coffee tastes.

              WDT works for me. IF a blind shaker significantly reduced the extent or risk of channeling than WDT and was significantly less faff than WDT, I might try it. But all I’ve seen is one sensational video by one pundit looking for continued fame and fortune. When and if more studies are done that prove that a blind shaker or other distribution method is more effective, I will try it.

              I personally have found that WDT is more effective (for me) than hand distribution or tapping. I never got into using the Niche cup, though it works for many. I learned that wedge type distribution tools move too much coffee around (less grounds movement is in my experience generally better) and I do like a solid tamp.

              But that’s what works for me. There are many ways to effectively distribute coffee into the PF basket, once you get good at it. What I do object to is folks getting too hot under the collar about their way. Or using pejorative words to criticize what I do (WDT or warming my basket/top screen) if I spend an extra minute or two making my coffee the way I like to make it.

              And if I could get my buddy to actually put a measured dose of coffee into his PF and do better than a quick smoosh with one finger and pay attention to his brew ratio, in order to make a decent espresso with his Breville, that would be an achievement. But he just dumps coffee into his PF, tamps with the plastic tamper that came with the machine and pours until the shot cup looks full enough. Using stale coffee from Costco. But he’s happy with his coffee and otherwise enjoys life, so after my couple of polite suggestions were ignored, I just accept the coffee cup he gives me with thanks and compliments. Each to their own.

              Cuprajake id love them to re do this test now with all the info available

              Why would there be a difference now?

                MWJB different grinders and burrs

                Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

                  Cuprajake I think that is overstated, plus they used a selection of grinders.

                  Many ‘new’ burrs are copies of long existing burrs, in different size formats.

                  This is one of my favourite grinder videos…

                  so are we saying its just best to use the niche cup and tamp?
                  cba watching/reading all that data, need a @tompoland tdlrspz
                  Giphy - Uh Huh Eye Roll GIF by Steve Harvey TV

                  Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

                    Cuprajake Isn’t that what you’re supposed to do with the Niche cup, grind into it, shake it, transfer & tamp? Yes, that is what Lance, Samp Smrke & Doug Weber are in effect saying, except for the use of the Weber blind tumbler rather than the Niche cup.

                    There’s an overview in the video description:

                    “Tasting the Difference: Is Grind Evenness Important? But how much does grind evenness really affect your cup of coffee? To find out, we brewed three batches of coffee using the same beans ground in the most even burr grinder, the least even burr grinder, and our top-rated blade grinder, which achieved up to 46 percent medium pieces. We kept all the variables the same except for the grinder. A panel of 21 tasters then sampled the coffees in a blind tasting. The verdict was surprising: Though we identified flavor differences in the batches of coffee, each made a good cup and tasters were split on which one they preferred. To verify these surprising results, we conducted this test three additional times. We also brought in coffee tasting experts, and they came to the same conclusion.”

                    cheers,

                    i try not to watch too many coffee youtubers now.

                    Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

                    Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -