One thought for both of you….many Lelit machines because of their price are often purchased 1st time users, so never discount user error initially. Video evidence is always a great idea, as their description of the problem can often lead us astray. I remember once a person logged a fault with a machine, because it didn’t work when they lifted the lever….they were not lifting the lever past the mid position!

I have actually had a great deal of trouble following the OP posts of the issue, because certain things are imprecise, leaving hanging questions..

  • is this all the time

  • is the user flushing the machine when they shouldn’t, because you flush HXs don’t you?

  • are they using the hot water tap and drawing a lot of water (because it’s there to be used, right

  • steamed, how much, to what temp (maintaining 1 bar is pretty good if i’m honest (is there a clue here?)

  • what country are they in (USA), is the programming slightly different?

  • 30 minutes is in reality just properly warmed up and the machine may not react the same as 1 hour in because it’s still sinking heat.

  • was it purchased new/used, what’s the date of manufacture on the rating plate

fl13dl1c3 I’ve never steamed two milk jugs back to back so I don’t know if the second steaming would result in pressure dropping below 1 bar. I ran a test after the machine was on 30+ minutes, flushed it to get the boiler running and steam pressure maxed at 1.25bars. Then “steamed” for 30+ seconds (letting it run without steaming anything), it ran at 1 bar in its entirety. Turned off the steam. Waited 15 seconds or so, turned the steam back on to run for 30+ seconds and it started off running at 1 bar, but dropped slightly to 0.8 bar for a couple of seconds before going back up to 1 bar the rest of the time.

It’s why I asked the question about HX mode…I will have to go back and check my review, but if I remember correctly it has a standby mode, is he in this?

Assume no knowledge as his first post starts with the words “this is my first machine”

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    @Doram @MediumRoastSteam
    You’re right, I’m not familiar with the correct terminology. What I meant by “steam pressure” is the top portion of the manometer where it displays the word “Steam”, and it idles there around 0.5 - 0.875 after the machine has warmed up 30+minutes, prior to pulling a shot.

    @Doram
    Once Mara X has finished the warm up cycle, there are two situations we are looking for on the manometer: Situation 1 is when the machine is ready to brew a shot of coffee. For this we expect the pressure to be 0.5-0.8 bar (call it whatever you want); Situation 2 is when the pressure is ready for steaming after a “steam boost” (around 1.5 bar).
    My machine does not replicate situation 2. Here is a video of the machine pulling a shot, and watching the “steam boost” afterwards. It goes up to 1.25 bars

    I didn’t get to do a timelapse video, but it’s the full 32 minutes of cold to warmup

    You can see here that it maxes out at 2 bars of pressure while warming up.

    @DavecUK I have actually had a great deal of trouble following the OP posts of the issue, because certain things are imprecise, leaving hanging questions..

    is this all the time

    is the user flushing the machine when they shouldn’t, because you flush HXs don’t you?

    are they using the hot water tap and drawing a lot of water (because it’s there to be used, right

    steamed, how much, to what temp (maintaining 1 bar is pretty good if i’m honest (is there a clue here?)

    what country are they in (USA), is the programming slightly different?

    30 minutes is in reality just properly warmed up and the machine may not react the same as 1 hour in because it’s still sinking heat.

    was it purchased new/used, what’s the date of manufacture on the rating plate

    Yes this is all the time in brew priority mode (X mode, coffee mode, whatever the correct terminology is)
    I do not flush the machine prior to pulling a shot
    I do not use the hot water tap
    I am in the USA
    The Lelit box says a manufactured date of 05/2021
    I purchased this brand new, received on Monday 01/24/2022

    The machine is on standby mode, however I’ve kept it on and ‘active’ during the testing by activating the lever for a second so that it does not go into standby mode. I will try to disable this later as well and test again after the machine has been on for a full 1 hour.

    I will steam some milk later today and provide info on the amount, and time to temperature.

      fl13dl1c3 I didn’t get to do a timelapse video, but it’s the full 32 minutes of cold to warmup

      I have watched both your videos. Your machine doesn’t behave exactly the same as mine, but the differences are not extreme. In your ‘Steam pressure after shot’ video I can see you are getting a steam boost. It seems a little slow to kick in, and it’s only going up to ~1.25 bar while mine goes to about 1.5 bar.

      In your warmup video your pressure peaks at about 2 bar, while mine goes to about 2.75 bar.

      Are those differences intended and a result of different programming (my machine is from June 2020 and yours from May 2021)? I don’t know. My feeling is that this isn’t intended, but I can’t confirm that. If I were you, I would send your videos to Lelit and ask them.

          fl13dl1c3 You’re right, I’m not familiar with the correct terminology. What I meant by “steam pressure”

          I think your terminology is spot on. I’d say Steam Pressure too 👍

            Doram Are those differences intended and a result of different programming (my machine is from June 2020 and yours from May 2021)? I don’t know. My feeling is that this isn’t intended, but I can’t confirm that. If I were you, I would send your videos to Lelit and ask them.

            It feels like it’s unintended too. I’ve watched workflow videos of newer machines (the one with the new black logo) and their steam pressure looks to be similar like yours post brew.

            I’ve contacted my retailer for now with this info and will see what they say. If it doesn’t go anywhere I will include messaging Lelit as well.

            Appreciate everyone’s help.

                fl13dl1c3 It feels like it’s unintended too. I’ve watched workflow videos of newer machines (the one with the new black logo) and their steam pressure looks to be similar like yours post brew.

                I’ve contacted my retailer for now with this info and will see what they say. If it doesn’t go anywhere I will include messaging Lelit as well.

                I am pretty confident something isn’t right with your machine, just trying to be cautions when saying I don’t know for sure. :-).

                We have seen others having similar issues, and as far as I remember most were solved with new temperature probes. The last report from a recent case that looks similar to yours is Lelit suggesting to replace the Gicar box (but this is after a temp probe replacement at the top of the boiler didn’t solve the issue). So this direction would be my guess for what is wrong with your machine.

                  @MediumRoastSteam How long does it take for you to steam your milk? How much cold milk is in the jug, and which type of milk? Thanks.

                  I steamed 175ml of whole milk straight out of the refrigerator. It took me about 55 seconds to get it to a temp that was too hot to touch >1 second.
                  Does the performance of the steam work as expected?

                    fl13dl1c3 - hmm…. Feels a bit slow - but I have an Elizabeth. There was a thread on this forum where we shared some metrics… I’ll see if I find it. Or @Doram can just let us know how long it takes for him. 👌

                        MediumRoastSteam fl13dl1c3 - hmm…. Feels a bit slow - but I have an Elizabeth. There was a thread on this forum where we shared some metrics… I’ll see if I find it. Or @Doram can just let us know how long it takes for him. 👌

                        Don’t know if you remember, but we had the exact same question from someone who steamed 200 grams of milk, and I made a video of steaming 200g from the fridge for comparison. Pulled that video and it’s about one minute to get from fridge temp to ~60C.

                        So 55 seconds for 175ml isn’t completely off the board, which makes sense as the machine’s pressure is just slightly low (~1.25 after steam boost instead of 1.5).

                            Doram - totally agree with the above. And I remember the talks, but didn’t remember where the video was. 😊👍 -

                              Doram

                              My US version from 10/2020 behaves the same as Doram’s. It heats up to around 2.75bar on initial warm-up and steam boosts to around 1.5bar after the first shot is pulled.

                                @Doram Situation 1 is when the machine is ready to brew a shot of coffee. For this we expect the pressure to be 0.5-0.8 bar (call it whatever you want)

                                I actually saw my machine’s idle pressure all the way as low as 0.3 bar today. I assume this isn’t normal either?

                                  fl13dl1c3 I actually saw my machine’s idle pressure all the way as low as 0.3 bar today. I assume this isn’t normal either?

                                  If ‘normal’ is how my machine behaves then no, it’s not normal. You can see in my warmup and idling after a shot time-lapse videos that the idling pressure doesn’t go below 0.5 bar.

                                    As an update, I reached out to both my supplier and Lelit. The supplier said they would investigate and get back to me and Lelit provided some feedback.
                                    After some back and forth of their suggestions and me providing videos, their feedback is that my machine is operating normally. They said that if I want higher steam pressure I should pull the lever for a couple of seconds prior to my workflow as to “wake up” the machine. Their suggested workflow:
                                    Flush -> Grind -> Brew -> Prepare milk - Steam milk.
                                    They suggested a 2 minute time difference between flushing and brewing (said my 120v machine heats slower than the 240v counterparts)
                                    I saw a minimal increase in pressure to about 1.3 bars instead of 1.25 bar. But it’s insignificant because once I open the valve for steam it drops to 1 bar regardless.

                                    Not sure how much more I can push this issue or if I even should. The machine does work - I can steam my milk albeit maybe 10 seconds slower? Still it doesn’t feel great knowing that my machine can’t get to the same pressure as others.

                                      fl13dl1c3

                                      Hi, this is their usual response. That’s what they told me.

                                      The only thing different in your reply is that they mentioned the 120v being an issue, but in my country, we use 220v but mine still seems to behave the same as you. (Not to mentioned plenty of other users of the machine here with perfectly normal steam performance)

                                      I’d ask your retailer to swap the HX temp probe (and not the service boiler temp probe) I think it might be faking on my machine, hence the PID makes bad decisions in thermal regulation.

                                      As mentioned in my thread, my supplier should replace my Gicar box, but I don’t believe it will make any difference. I’ll as them to swap out the HX probe and water level sensor just to be sure, hope they’ll be cool with it.

                                          MisterH1337 I’d ask your retailer to swap the HX temp probe (and not the service boiler temp probe) I think it might be faking on my machine, hence the PID makes bad decisions in thermal regulation.

                                          From my understanding, there are two temperature sensors on the boiler, one on top and the other on the bottom?

                                          Your retailer already replaced the sensor on top and that didn’t fix your issue, and now you will ask them to replace the bottom sensor as well as the gicar box?

                                          I’m looking at Lelit Insider youtube videos and came across this one where he points to the NTC(?) probe @ 33 seconds which I assume is the other bottom sensor.

                                          I’ll await your results after your next visit with your retailer and see if that fixes your issue (I wish I could bring mine in without shipping it - they’re 4+ hours away!). If it does fix your issue it looks like a fairly simple swap for the temp sensor - Lelit Insider has a separate video on replacing the top temperature sensor for steam and it was just a simple swap and I assume the same steps for the bottom sensor.

                                          I also have to ask, when was your machine manufactured? Wonder if it’s a similar batch as mine was May 2021.

                                              I’ve seen several of these video’s before and informative but is it just me who winces at how he handles the machines?

                                                Alpesh ’ve seen several of these video’s before and informative but is it just me who winces at how he handles the machines?

                                                I do as well, but it depends on your perspective and how you see the machines.

                                                • When I review a production machine, it’s usually going back to be sold, so I have to keep it looking like new…hence the use of grip mats etc.. and I am super careful when removing the case. so much so people used to ask to buy the machine I had reviewed, because they knew it was checked over.
                                                • Repairing machines…I am very casual about it and the use of substitute parts, because to me, it’s usually no biggie
                                                • Prototype machines won’t be sold and may have issues, I’m casual about that, they are essentially valueless to most people
                                                • Lelit will see a machine they are making a demo video on for repairs etc.. as essentially valueless, it will never be sold, just used to show repairs
                                                • I find it much harder to get excited about machines that are no prototypes now…with all their attendant issues.

                                                I remember the 2nd alpha 2 minima with the coloured gauge, ACS wanted it back to break down for spares. It was a well working machine, I said that’s not right to do. I can sell it for you and give you the money…they were surprised anyone would want it. I can’t remember who bought it now, but it was very cheap.

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                                                  fl13dl1c3

                                                  Mine was manufactured on 07/21.

                                                  I don’t think it’s a bad batch, but a rather permissive range of what they consider “functioning enough to ship out” at factory.

                                                  I still bet my money on some poorly assembled components, not being sealed/secured correctly. Maybe even the steam wand or manometer assembly. Something mechanical that would explain a severe drop in pressure as soon as I begin steaming and the very slow time it takes to buildup afterward even when I’m forcing a steam boost.

                                                  A cool test on your end would be maybe connecting to the gicar UART if you have the technical capacity to do so and get the temp sensors readings as well as the FW version you have.

                                                      MisterH1337

                                                      So I have been emailing Lelit back and forth, showing them on video how the steam pressure reacts through all the different scenarios they gave, and lastly mentioned to them that in steam mode PID level 2, the steam pressure only goes up to 1.25 bars. I asked if that was normal - and they responded that the manometer has some tolerance and my described situation is within their standard.

                                                      So my take from this is that they either think the manometer may be off a bit, or if that’s not the case, that this steam pressure is acceptable.

                                                      Not sure how I feel! I hope you have a resolution working directly with your supplier, and I will try to take that same route if yours works out.