Thanks I have done a bit more research, and I think these filters use Anoin resin, and work in a similar fashion to the cationic in tank filters such as Lelit use. I have used the filtered drinking water in the tank of my Elizabeth hich also has an in tank softener. So far the water is reading as soft using test strips, so I hope all is good!
Water filter importance when using bottled water
24 days later
Alkalinity is about 10mg/l. It is a measure of the capacity of water to neutralise acid. You’re looking for bicarbonate and carbonate to determine alkalinity generally, but you’re really looking for anything that can remove H+ ions from the water. The water is really high in sulphates…not sure how much they contribute to alkalinity. You may want to check with a test kit.
Hardness is just less than 90m/l.
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Thanks Rob. In this case I’ll try to find another solution, which third wave water with distilled water and check if it’s ok.
And this case what do you think about third wave water? Does it cause scale if I used their espresso range formula? In lelit bianca (still on the way)
Appreciated and thanks 👍
Remineralising distilled is probably a good route.
I don’t use third wave water. They list their ingredients and you can just make the mix yourself if you want. If I recall they use Calcium Citrate, Magnesium sulfate, Sodium chloride and Potassium Bicarboante….but I’m not sure. They claim that you can’t get scale, which would be true if all alkalinity came from citrates. I’d need figures to say any more, but if there’s hardness from Calcium or Magnesium together with bicarbonate then you’ll get scale - it just depends at what temp, and how long you can use a service boiler until you’ve got to refresh to water in the boiler.
Put it this way, water is going to be either corrosive or scale forming.
An espresso machine runs at a variety of temperatures. From room temp, to 105c in one boiler (approx) to approx 125c in another. It’s not possible to feed a machine with water that will be balanced across all temps. So you can have water that is neither scale forming or corrosive at 105c, but scale forming at 125c. Or you can have water that will be neither corrosive or scale forming at 125c, but corrosive at 105c. It would be a bit foolish to try and supply a service boiler with such water as you’d have to completely empty it out and refill every day, so you’re better off either using water that lacks hardness and is simply corrosive across the whole machine, or using water that is balanced in the brew boiler but scales in the service boiler - meaning you have to descale it (not usually an issue, it’s the brew boiler that’s a pita).
Also worth noting that ‘corrosive’ is used loosely. It’s according to the Langelier index, and I’m not sure it is entirely appropriate to use it when talking about water remineralised to have alkalinity to stop it from becoming acidic. So you could do what I and others have done or still do and that’s remineralise distilled with sodium bicarbonate. Or you could try adding some hardness in and keep an eye on scale in the service boiler….up to you. OR you could go for Hardness and alkalinity from non-bicarbonate sources (which TWW may do).
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The paragraph you wrote above about the selection of water of either corrosive or scale forming is really excellent and saved me a lot of time wondering around. I have better view of the situation now man! Thanks again.
Now to be honest I’ve tried to search the forum for your method, but got lost so can you tell your way, so i can choose and compare to tww and other methods? And choose the best possible water for bianca.
Appreciated man.
Ibrahim
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I make a two concentrates to add to distilled water. One of Magnesium bicarbonate, made by adding Magnesium Hydroxide to distilled & carbonated water, and Sodium Bicarbonate. It’s a bit variable but not hugely. I’ll get between 25-30 hardness as CaCO3 from Mg and approx 40 mg/l Alkalinity along with 10mg/l Sodium.
I wouldn’t use this in the service boiler as my aim is to not have to descale. So I manually drain and fill the service boiler every 5 weeks with distilled water, which is fine for my use and isn’t nearly as much trouble as it sounds….actually turning the machine on and off to let the pump fill the boiler would be more annoying to me.
This might not be “the best” water, but I’m personally happy with it. The taste has improved vs just remineralising with bicarbonate. Having said that, if I weren’t prepared to go through the routine with the service boiler I’d not use anything contributing hardness and just focus on alkalinity - it has a much greater impact.
I might have an attempt in the future at remineralising with a citrate salt to avoid carbonate alkalinity, but there may be other things to try too I haven’t thought of.
Also worth pointing out there are other reasons to flush the service boiler out beyond scaling. You wouldn’t want chlorides, sulfate and silica to be present in there either due to the associated corrosion risks, so whatever you do at some point you should be refreshing the water in there even if there isn’t going to be scale build up.
14 days later
Hi again.
It’s been some time. I was searching and checking possibilities of water formula.
The formula you mentioned here magnesium hydroxide to distilled and carbonated water plus sodium bicarbonate seems really good and matching target, but as long i don’t have much time during the day i found rpavlis recipe and seems easy ( maybe some flat taste, but will start with it and then your recipe will be next).
I agree with you, because logically the distilled water should not be a problem in steam boiler, otherwise the steam wand would get corrosion, but it doesn’t! So good news. Now my question is: are you draining your service boiler by opening the water tap on machine until water finished? And what about filling? What do mean by manually?
One last thing Rob, is empty the brew boiler in bianca PITA? Is it related to paddle?
Have a good day
I don’t know if the boilers have drain valves on them or not. Without a drain valve emptying a brew boiler is a pita because….well how do you get water out without pumping water in? It’s a very long process of dilution. You either need a fixture on top that’s easy to remove and doesn’t risk breaking anything, or you can remove the mushroom and tip the machine upside down.
Slightly off topic but within the water regions! I couldn’t believe the difference in the cup using different water to make up the americano. In work the last 2 days, bringing in my pre made espressos and topping up with water. Yesterday I threw out what I had left after making the first one- I thought I had made it all wrong, was like pear drops jumping out of the cup. Today I ensured to cut the shots shorter (on a medium to light roast atm) and had one at home using osmio water to top up as I always do and it was very nice. Just had a cup in work and again it’s crazy fruity, so, has to be the water in work from the burco boiler. Amazing the difference it makes (for the worse like). Dunno if it’s just the water spec here or a build up of scale within the burco that would do this? Think it would be a step too far if I start to bring in my own water too!!
Well coffee is 80% water 😁
Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -
Ibrahim Well the other way would be to remove the thermocouple and use a syringe to remove the water. I wouldn’t personally want to be doing that.
For the service boiler I remove the anti-vacuum valve and use a syringe to get water in and out, which is what I mean by manually. The alternative, possibly easier and safer way is to drain through the hot water tap and fill using the pump and reservoir. My anti-vac valve is fitted with PTFE and is just a little more than finger tight so no risk of snapping threads off or anything - not everyone is so lucky. And I personally find it easier and less faff than emptying and refilling the reservoir, though with the Bianca that might be easier….
Then following the easy path will be for emptying the service boiler.
So I’ll be using rpalvis recipe until i become confident with machine, then might ask you later on in depth about your recipe.
Plus refilling service boiler with distilled water every few weeks or days to ensure no scale build up.
And lastly will be using lelit filter 70l as a guarantee also.