@"simonc"#p13130 Sorry if I've missed it, but what size jug are you using? I'm struggling with milk still, but don't get much practice. I was using a 600ml jug, which was no good for really seeing what was going on - it also turns out I was steaming for too long. I got a 350ml jug and you can see the volume increase much better as well as control everything better. I'm still months away from anything approaching art, but making much more progress on the steaming. I don't think I'll need the three hole tip I also bought, ever!🤣

Steam tip shape and hole size can make all the difference too, I like the bulb types better than the squared off vesrion

@"PortafilterProcrastinator"#p13200 I've got a 350ml jug so easy to see, maybe I'm just trying for too much volume. That's the ones thing no one days in videos, how much increase is ok. @"Cuprajake"#p13206 I'm trying between the Minima original one, 3 hole and bulb? Vs a 4 hole nuova simonelli one that also came with it that's 4 hole and a more square one.

@"simonc"#p13234 Just tried a flat white. Filled 350ml jug to the bottom of the spout, using the Minima tip at 115C (trying out a lower pressure). I think I only did maybe 5mm increase and then went deep.. a few larger bubbles that knocked out (still not sure how to eliminate the first few when I turn it on, even if its in the milk). And…. the foam did sit on top! Far from a presentable heart, but it was a shape at least, and even lifting off through it left a bit of a line! Might go back to 125C and then play more from there, but with aiming for less foam. What I was doing before made some really enjoyable textured drinks with the bubbles well mixed through (ie not a steamed milk with lump of foam on top) but I don't think it was thin enough for art. Is milk like espresso? Steam to best texture and taste and not what it looks like 😂

> @"simonc"#p13239 Is milk like espresso? Steam to best texture and taste and not what it looks like I'd say that's the best place to start. Too much microfoam and it doesn't mix so well with the coffee and it tastes just like a milk drink. If you don't foam so much so the milk becomes thicker but no blob of foam on top I think it'll taste nicer and, when you pour the milk (remembering to swirl the milk in the jug until it's glossy first) you'll find as you finish the pour it'll naturally make swirls; then the next step is to control those to make them more art-like. I take sugar in my coffee so however good my swirls might be they get destroyed when I stir

@"Java_avaJ"#p13258 cheers. Sounds liked more practise and more flat whites. Shame. 😀 Tip from my favourite cafe that is sadly no more. RIP Taylor Street. They would stir the sugar into the espresso then pour the milk so no messed up art.

Can anyone that’s ordered a Minima direct from ACS shed any light on the customs and duties fees encountered? Just trying to calculate what to expect and it’s very convoluted. In the process of making an order and very excited! Though also a little apprehensive at the large amount of ££ - not a normal spend for myself…! Still can’t believe the wife agreed to this either!

@"simonc"#p13239 I think the best way to get feedback is to put up a video if you can of your technique, upload to YouTube and then share here. Think we need an area made (hint hint @"DavecUK"#1 😉) for video feedback, it worked well on the other forum I felt. I currently turn on the steam just above the milk so none gets sucked up and then place it just under the surface to get the paper ripping sound. Using the feel of the jug, I dip it under a little deeper when it just gets warm and get the best swirl possible to mix it all in. After watching a few tip videos I also recently started letting it sit on the side for a minute while I clean the tip and then bang any bubbles out and swirl. This apparently lets the milk settle (if using full fat) and bubbles loosen so easier to get rid of. The swirling then obviously gives you the silk-like texture. If all good you won't get the layer of foam just sat on top but a well mixed drink. My art isn't great which is down to my pouring technique but once that's good I think I should be able to get some basic art down. Oh, I'm only using a 2 hole tip on my Minima, the 3 hole was a bit too quick for me. Good luck, I've still got lots to learn but feel I'm getting the hang of it slowly but surely 👍🏼

@"Alexvs"#p13319 cheers. I might do that once I work out how to! Might look into a 2 hole tip as well as. I actually saw a video from Emily Bryant, ex latte art champion I think who said yes to knocking out bubbles and yes to lots of swirling but to not let it sit as that's when it separates. And then it's called latte art. I love flat whites that I don't believe are just smaller lattes but should have more texted milk ? Is it easier to pour art with milk for a latte than a flat white? Am I over thinking this?

@"simonc"#p13339 Here's the 2 hole tip I have: https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/acs-minima-2-hole-steam-tip.html. They've halved the price to £4.99 so I'd grab it before it's sold out as doubt it'll be restocked. It's much easier to start with the 2 hole and then move on for beginners like me I've found. Guess this is the problem with technique, it can be very personal, what works for some doesn't for others. The separation doesn't seem to happen too much for me as long as it's not left too long. I have whole milk while the wife has skimmed which can't be left at all so I pour instantly. The higher the fat content the longer it takes to separate. This is why I just leave it while I wipe and then knock and swirl. Think it's just now a name, I've seen art done in an espresso mug so it's just a dash of milk. Flat whites should be fine as it's the microfoam without the thicker foam on top so just requires less air. Definitely overthinking but think that's how we all start off 😉

Mine came with the 2 hole tip already on thankfully. Doubt I'll be changing it

Foaming Milk

Dusk

One thing I’ve eventually learnt is that you don’t want to stretch the milk too much, it can be quite easy to add way too much volume (bubbles) at the beginning.

For jug size you want to be filling around the level of the bottom of the spout (a bit above or below is fine). Also worth noting that the milk volume will increase slightly due to the water in the steam as well as the air.

simonc

Alexvs cheers. Ordered

simonc

dutchy101 so that has definitely made a difference. I had forgotten I had changed it but was puzzled as it was a bit more controllable. Then realised. Think I’ll line the 2 hole

I’ve also realised that, to quote Lance, it’s all about the rotation. Still far from presentable art but it’s definitely starting along the right road.

JahLaza

Wasn’t sure where to put this link up but thought it worth sharing for a laugh here. I did think maybe one of the lever threads, maybe the funnies but Then I though milk foaming might be the most appropriate!! He’s no Hoffman

DavecUK

JahLaza Seen that one before…

simonc

I still have a problem with the initial mix making my milk too pale. Wonder if I’m still stretching a little too much and too much foam goes in. It also feels , to quote Lance, that it’s slightly too concretised, in that my art stays only in half the cup and doesn’t flow to the other half.

Alexvs

simonc What do you mean by milk too pale? I’m no better yet and just getting too many bubbles which seem to be added at the end when I turn the steam off weirdly.

Milk staying in half the cup is all down to how it’s poured, I watched a video which showed holding the handle like a pencil which helped my control as it’s like drawing. Also the jug spout being too rounded can have a massive effect which mine is quite round so I know I’ll never get amazing art.

Defo a massive learning phase and 100% agree they’re all the same now, especially at home.

dfk41

simonc Remember, you cannot stretch until you have injected air in. Personally (and my latte art is more autistic than artistic) I put the tip down towards the bottom for the first 12 to 15 seconds, then swirl and stretch at the end. You can practice with cold water with a drop of washing up liquid. It behaves like milk

Squiggs19822

simonc I am far from a latte art expert. In fact, I’m rubbish and my milk technique is poor. However, it’s something I’m focusing on just now and something I found helpful on a video I watched recently was to stretch the milk until it’s only marginally warmer than body temperature (so a slight increase from your hand on the pitcher) and then finish simply mixing. That has definitely helped as I found I was stretching for much longer. It feels like that isn’t enough, but I’ve had some of my silkiest milk and microform since taking this approach. YMMV, but it has definitely helped me.

simonc

Alexvs so turns out I’m not the only one that thinks that the terms are not as meaningful any more. I had this argument with several baristas at Taylor Street in their last days after their fantastic head barista left shortly followed by one of their trainers

Goodfella

Does anyone have any tips for steaming skimmed milk. I get good consistency with full or even semi skimmed that i can pour latte art with. With fully skimmed its either too “wet” or gets too foamy and separates.

I have been using Lance Hendriks technique.

Cheers

Ross

Alexvs

Goodfella I’ve tried so many times with skimmed as the Mrs has skimmed while I have whole and yet to find a technique that works. I’m not going to say it’s impossible but definitely feels like it. I actually feel like I get a better texture from the way the skimmed looks vs my whole, nice and shiny and smooth, but as soon as I pour it just becomes a blob or very thin. I think the best possibility to get anything is with a near instant pour to beat the separation.

If I every work it out, I’ll post here.

Goodfella

Sounds like I am not alone. I did see one video that suggested you only need to do the paper ripping stage for half the time of whole milk. The window for perfection must be very small.

Cheers

Ross

JahLaza

Wish I could do what this little fella can!!

Bellpit

Anyone have any info thoughts on this observation. Normally I am fairly consistent at making microfoam with typically full fat straight from the fridge. I did the Smith St Barista light course several years ago in Sheffield, which I found useful. Just recently I have had bottles of milk that foam ok , nice shiny microfoam, then on standing ( I steam then pull a shot) out-gas badly ( actually here the fizzing)? First thought it’s the fat/ protein content changing and I end up with lots of visible bubbles /poor textured milk . I will take a photo if it happens again. I use a thermometer, and checked its it’s cal is ok, so stretch to around 30c, just less 50% Inc in volume then heat and ‘swirl’ to 60c? All on a std Gaggia Classic , ( just eyeing up a used Vesuvius).

Dusk

Just a thought, you’re using a Gaggia Classic and steaming milk first. Surely it takes quite a while for the temperature to reduce to be stable to pull a shot?

Bellpit

@dusk Yes, I use a hefty purge to drop the temp. I have a cheap bare thermocouple temp sensor stuck onto the boiler away from the heaters. More for repeatability, but the flash to steam temp seems ball park correct.

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