**Please be warned! It is a long read.** Having drank coffee for decades from all types of coffee powders, brews and mostly cheap espresso machines, like the general public, we always found the comforts and luxuries the coffee shops bring. We considered the coffee from them as heavenly, can only be made in shops and can’t be replicated at home. Fast forward towards Covid, I was mostly sick of instant powders, pour overs made from pre-ground and terrible black stuffs that came from cheaper machines at home. I stuck to tea most of the time and stopped enjoying coffee from the shops. Then, I struck Gold at the other coffee forum, Hoffman’s videos and here. Dave’s posts and videos were inspiring! The rest is a history. Fast forward, post Covid (really 😉), my wife and I hate the coffee from the coffee shops. We don’t buy coffee any more. We make a great quality black and milk-based coffee consistently. The espressos keeps improving and, thanks to @"MWJB"#139 the pour overs / brews are always consistently very good. We, as a family (mostly self), have been running after various roasts, pay a lot of attention to the notes and so on. This is good as we get to drink and taste coffee from various locations, get a good bargain and decide what works the best or otherwise for us. We will continue this practice to get the best value for the money. Early on, we paid a lot of attention to pick and differentiate the fruits notes. For an example, in the red fruits variety, if the bag mentions Cranberries and Peach, we try to think is it Cranberry or Peach or both (I don’t want to get into Conical vs Flat for clarity, burr size, machine dependency here.) While the attempts to differentiate is a good learning exercise and helps develop a good knowledge about coffee and shot making / brewing, we have been thinking that all the attempts to pick the notes apart in red fruits (as an example) mentioned in the bag may be a little OTT or a little too fuzzy. We think it’s, perhaps, not worth getting stressed about. Because, IMHO, it hard to differentiate between cranberry, peach, nectarine, blackberry in the cup - at least for us at home. May be, we lack the skill sets! I think, it doesn’t matter as long as the notes mentioned in the bag suit our tastes. Because, we are ordinary folks trying to drink some good coffee at home and we are neither aspiring to be super tasters nor aim to run a business in this space. What have we done about it? While buying beans, we generally avoid bags that mention, for example, gooseberry, rhubarb, even cranberry to some extent, lime soda and so on. As long as we can try to avoid these notes in the bags, we are happy. The intent is not to offend anyone for whom all of these may be important. It is fine, if they are. Sorry, if the post comes out that way! 😊 This brings the title of the post! What do you guys think? Please share your views, experiences that gained in your coffee making and anything, which you find it as relevant to the post. Thanks for reading!

@"LMSC"#p18595 I tend to want a good cup of coffee with a rich coffee taste, well roasted enjoyable and if the flavour hints are there it can be enjoyable….some coffees are processed in such a way that flavour notes are very obvious and a few coffees definitely have those flavours within them, without any extended anaerobic processing. I have a special processed Columbian and the boozy sherry notes are so strong, that for me personally it works really well in a blend with a chocolatey Brazilian Daterra. As a pour over, the boozy notes are so pronounced it might be overwhelming for some. My pet hate is when roasters "incorrectly" try to maximise on flavour notes (rather than having coffee taste like coffee) by severely under roasting or light roasting without anywhere near enough development, due to inexperience. **Probably because we are too fussed, or obsessed about the flavour notes**…the wilder the better…there is a lot of marketing hidden away in those myriad flavour notes.

> @"DavecUK"#p18596 I tend to want a good cup of coffee with a rich coffee taste, well roasted enjoyable and if the flavour hints are there it can be enjoyable….some coffees are processed in such a way that flavour notes are very obvious and a few coffees definitely have those flavours within them Exactly! This is what we all should aim to get / achieve in our efforts to make a good coffee at home. We probably lost track some where down the line in our coffee quest, focussing too much on the notes. > @"DavecUK"#p18596 My pet hate is when roasters “incorrectly” try to maximise on flavour notes (rather than having coffee taste like coffee) by severely under roasting or light roasting without anywhere near enough development, due to inexperience. I would think this approach has, perhaps, misled us in scratching our head re-the notes to some extent. > @"DavecUK"#p18596 Probably because we are too fussed, or obsessed about the flavour notes…the wilder the better…there is a lot of marketing hidden away in those myriad flavour notes. It’s a vicious circle; we chasing the notes; the marketing leveraging it to mention notes that we can chase; some think they can; the others can’t, and, so on! Some where on the back of our mind, many might know, this obsession or what ever we might want to call it, is not worth it or elusive or just a mirage.

ive had some coffee where ive never tasted some of the notes, but then ive never eaten a dandelion so some of the floral stuff is lost on me

I think there definitely a lot of marketing in tasting notes. You could call something citrus, or even better lemon, but yuzu sounds more exotic again. It's like any food menu that doesn't have roast lamb, it has slow roasted lamb. Cheese & Onion crisps are mature cheddar cheese and caramelised onion. However, just to contradict myself. I guess most roasters would have a coffee that could come under the red berries description, but they won't all taste the same so describing one as cranberry and one as redcurrant might just be so there's differentiation between roasters. I personally go for a general style of coffee, usually avoiding anything with too many chocolate/nut flavours but won't get too hung up on trying to find a specific flavour.

@"Cuprajake"#p18600 It quickly reminds me of a perception of what we think the tasting notes are. Take for an example, Django’s Santa Ana. Very good roaster. Of their notes of blueberry, blackberry and vanilla, the blueberry and vanilla come out clearly. My 83 year old MIL is enjoying these SO coffee with milk. She always smells the beans. Without any hesitation she said the beans and the coffee smell and taste of a jack fruit! She asked me what the notes should be. I showed her the bag. She did 🙄 Go figure! 😂

I think I remember a James Hoffman video where he mentioned that tasting notes aren’t supposed to be specific, just a general guide. So a coffee saying ‘tastes like lemons or oranges’ isn’t actually going to taste of lemon or orange, just slightly sharp citrus notes. I think milk makes an enormous difference also. My taste in black coffee / espresso is exclusively medium/dark roasts with chocolate/caramel tasting notes. However I really enjoy some of the lighter, fruitier roasts with milk that I find almost undrinkable as espresso.

I think I remember a James Hoffman video where he mentioned that tasting notes aren’t supposed to be specific, just a general guide. So a coffee saying ‘tastes like lemons or oranges’ isn’t actually going to taste of lemon or orange, just slightly sharp citrus notes. I think milk makes an enormous difference also. My taste in black coffee / espresso is exclusively medium/dark roasts with chocolate/caramel tasting notes. I got into coffee through what I suppose would be classed as Italian style, so something that resembles it in some way is my preference. However I really enjoy some of the lighter, fruitier roasts with milk that I find almost undrinkable as espresso.

> @"Dusk"#p18602 It’s like any food menu that doesn’t have roast lamb, it has slow roasted lamb. Cheese & Onion crisps are mature cheddar cheese and caramelised onion. I agree, marketing is a wonderful thing. ![Giphy - marketing GIF](https://media1.giphy.com/media/mwwEcxbodLHIk/giphy.gif?cid=bb77869fvhznfi9uyhdtjts0z5a27lccktcnwn8vwyb2wj6o&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)

> @"Dusk"#p18602 I personally go for a general style of coffee, usually avoiding anything with too many chocolate/nut flavours but won’t get too hung up on trying to find a specific flavour. Chocolate and nutty flavours are very good either as black or importantly with milk. They are also easy to dial in. > @"Dusk"#p18602 won’t get too hung up on trying to find a specific flavour. I am glad a lot of us feel the same way.

> @"Ernie1"#p18604 I think milk makes an enormous difference also. My taste in black coffee / espresso is exclusively medium/dark roasts with chocolate/caramel tasting notes. However I really enjoy some of the lighter, fruitier roasts with milk that I find almost undrinkable as espresso. My daughter loves black long as they are less acidic and less fruity. With milk, she doesn’t care and in fact thinks light and medium light or fruity coffees are best served with milk. She loves these fruity notes coffee with milk. So is my wife.

Are we too fussed about the notes in the coffee?

LMSC

CoyoteOldMan trust it at your own peril

Giphy - Excited Celebration GIF by Slanted Studios

😂😂

Pompeyexile

I can only echo what has already been said. For me I tend to avoid the citricy flavours just because I’m not into the to more acidic taste. Chocolate, nuts, caramel, fudgy tend to get my attention. I’ll admit though, the only real stand out flavour that my un-educated tastebuds seem to recognise reglarly is…smokey; and no I don’t and never have. The only time I actually could taste a fruit mentioned in the tasting notes (Peach) was when I had a cold brew at a meeting of members of the forum that shall not be named. That had a very intense Peach flavour.

At the end of the day though, I have stopped trying to get the flavours the tasting notes hint at, if one come through then that’s a bonus, but as long as it’s got a good coffee taste, then I’m happy with that.

JahLaza

LMSC my family thinks that I have gone nuts!

I can relate 😂😂

Elcarajillo

It does not seem that long ago that fruity / acidic coffee’s were the ‘thing’. I personally have never liked fruity / or acidic coffee, I am more for the’ old fashioned coffee flavour’, full flavour with rich full mouth feel.

As for notes, spicy, tobacco, chocolate are more to my taste hence a liking for OBJ, mahogany roast malabar or monsooned M/ bar. Also fond of full flavoured Brazilian. No I am not a smoker.

LMSC

Elcarajillo tobacco

Giphy - Confused Kid Cudi GIF by Apple Music

DavecUK

LMSC Old Brown Java. Needs to be tried once in your life.

CoyoteOldMan

DavecUK Not to be confused with

LMSC

DavecUK Never knew you get coffee with tobacco flavour. I think it is a dark roast.

Small bag won’t hurt for sure! I wonder how would my wife and MIL react if they ever find out their coffee had tobacco notes. Perhaps, something like this might happen! 😂

Giphy - ass kick wow GIF

DavecUK

CoyoteOldMan They might well taste similar.

DavecUK

LMSC I can best describe OBJ as having tobacco and spice notes, with a touch of old moroccan leather sandals. A real man’s drink….

Giphy - beard GIF

Elcarajillo

DavecUK I do remember having some coffee in red bags which many on another forum praised to the rafters, I personally found them bloody awful, reminiscent of dilute lemon juice without any body, was the roaster trying to convert everyone to what he thought coffee should taste like.

In order to wean me off OBJ , what would you recommend for a rich full mouthfeel with low acidity ?

I would agree some OBJ is very unpleasant but it does depend on the roaster.

DavecUK

Elcarajillo Many Sumatran coffees can be great, low acidity sometimes earthy. Java Blawan Estate, good quality Daterras (anything Pentapacked) and good Costa Rican (especially those where you can faintly hear the sound of nose flutes from the bag).

P.S. Daterra has brightness, but not acidity when correctly roasted..usually lots of chocolate notes/body. I halways have 2 or 3 different Pentapacked Datteras on hand.

LMSC

I think I will pass that, for the time being, for two reasons:

I am not a fan of dark roasts
Not sure how that’s going to suit my taste buds.

I know coffee compass is a popular roaster selling OBJ. I have always found their roasts not consistent with their descriptions. Theirs’ err on the right of the roasting scale.

John_Yossarian

LMSC The taste notes have been something beyond my early machines’ capabilities so it really (almost) became “obsession” (this is a joke, Captain Obvious) once I crossed a threshold.

Sometimes with the right beans I have been able to drink literally sweet shots with lots of caramel, chocolaty flavours. Recently I had some mid-roasted beans, that were very citrussy in flavour. I had someone to check on our insulation and the guy had a couple of double ristrettos in the framework of 30 minutes. He kept on saying how citrussy the shots were. My wife found the coffee acidic. Go figure 😆.

I believe that if the notes were something you sense and enjoy it is definitely worthy looking for it. If, however, this is the primary goal, I will definitely not join. As long as you enjoy your shots, notes or not, this is what matters (at least to me).

Cheers!
PS BTW my wife and I are currently in Sardinia (Sardegna) and I have to admit that the person in MIlan who told me not to hope for great coffee here was right. I only had 2 or 3 out of more than 10 good shots. Fortunately Sardinia is not all about coffee and we are having great time.

CoyoteOldMan

DavecUK especially those where you can faintly hear the sound of nose flutes from the bag

This sounds like something Lovecraft could have drunk… or written… or written while drunk.

LMSC

John_Yossarian Enjoy your break!

Cuprajake

Some I get the tasting notes others not.

I had a Honduras that had bags of strawberry. One of mybfavourite to date.

I don’t like dark roast either.

I do like a bright drink sometime but the. I love lemon cheesecake 😂

I also like ones with a sweet aftertaste.

How ever, with milk that’s where the butty, chocolate, caramel stuff comes into its own for me

cjbailey1

I have to admit I do not have a “go to” coffee and have run for years on various different subscriptions (hasbean, square mile, blue coffee box, dog and hat, etc.) and I really enjoy that. Sometimes I get the tasting notes incredibly clearly and other times I don’t, but it doesn’t worry me and I don’t particularly go chasing them. How I drink my coffee (pourover, aeropress, coffee pot, cortado, americano, flat white, latte and only occasionally straight espresso) is driven by the beans but I’ll usually know from my first cortado how I’m going to end up liking them and will end up sticking to one brew method at home for that bag.

I am very much in the light/medium roast camp and do not enjoy the “burnt” taste I find with a lot of dark roasts. I do have a soft spot for more “acidic” coffees, but will mostly drink them as a cortado. I absolutely love the change between coffee bags when there is such a stark difference it makes you sit up and go “wow” at the fact they are both coffee… made the same way! When I make coffee for friends, or on the rare occasion I drink straight espresso, I will usually choose a coffee with more chocolatey/sweet tastingnotes because they seem to be what people mostly enjoy and I find the notes incredibly useful to guide me.

A little rambling, I guess in conclusion I use the notes for guidance but don’t chase them, particularly as I’m using (don’t hate me) hard tap water run through a peak water filter… but that’s another topic entirely!

DavecUK

cjbailey1 A little rambling, I guess in conclusion I use the notes for guidance but don’t chase them, particularly as I’m using (don’t hate me) hard tap water run through a peak water filter… but that’s another topic entirely!

You sir must be a rarity…..well done for sticking with it.🤪

cjbailey1

DavecUK not wanting to take this off topic but… I kickstarted it but didn’t end up using it for quite a while so still have filters left. I have had a few bad filters from the early batch (leaking resin) which have been replaced as well so they mean I have some additional over what i bought. I do find I get less buildup of limescale with the water and I also find it does give a cleaner cup. I don’t think I can justify an RO system from both a space and cost perspective and I (personally, not hating on those who do) really hate the idea of using bottled water from an environmental perspective. I am not certain what I will do when I run out of filters. I have thought about it a few times but haven’t come to a conclusion.

LMSC

cjbailey1 less buildup of limescale with the water

How do you verify this ? Do you test the water? I don’t if you mentioned what your set up is ? Brew/pour over, espresso, …

DavecUK

cjbailey1 Lot’s of people seem to use the Zero water jug and then re mineralise as req for whatever coffee type they’re making.

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