Pretty longish video with JH and Prof Tim Spector. I have saved it to my play list to watch leisurely. https://youtu.be/XO-7irGCaTA

I skimmed it listening to the bits I was interested….pretty good/interesting chat!

Interesting video. Nothing new for most of us. The main points are : - Coffee is healthy and contains more soluble fibre than people think. - Drink coffee the way we would like to drink - Does affect sleep and caffeine can stay in our blood for more than 5 to 7 hours. - Decaf is good and is not definitely a cheaper drink. JH avoids caffeine after 3 pm. - Adding milk to coffee is ok and probably less reason to add it in light and medium light roasts as they are not bitter -Coffee from shops are generally bitter and hence milk-based drinks are popular -It will be good if people can experiment drinking coffee without milk to get a real taste of it!

My phone suggested this to me today: https://phys.org/news/2023-06-unsustainable-coffee-production-people-sick.html

@"MediumRoastSteam"#p46792 I guess the use of agrichemicals (especially the banned ones) is not great. One thing though, if they weren't employed in the coffee industry and making money etc.. What else would they be doing, living in poverty, growing cocaine, or poppies (which is what they usually do instead of coffee). It could be argued that more people will get ill and die from the alternatives at the moment? I know one thing for sure…when the west steps in and (helps) interferes many years later, it's hard to see the positive effects of that help. I'm thinking of Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Ukraine, even Iran (where USA ) interfered big time to remove the then Shah….dunno

Is there any correlation, or recommendation in the video as to how much coffee is healthy, or a tipping point where it generally becomes unhealthy?

99% of our daily lives are bad for our health, from the stuff we wash in, eat, drive, breathe etc I enjoy coffee. If it kills me I'll die happy

@"Cuprajake"#p46798 - same here. I am a firm believer that it’s fine to have things in moderation. As you say, I enjoy coffee and won’t stop drinking unless my doctor tells me to. Same with beer, same with wine, red meets, cured meats, etc, etc etc.

Funny but it seems that whatever we eat or drink if over done it can cause us harm. Even scientists say that a vegan diet is not altogether healthy and there are elements in meat which we need that a plant based diet just cannot give you. Plus, I have seen a lot of overweight vegetarians/vegans, so whatever it is they are eating cannot be that good for them surely or like us meat eaters are they just greedy. I guess the answer for everyone including the vegetarians and vegans is 'a little bit of what you fancy does you good' A lot does not. I remember seeing this programme, where this large lady was complaining about being overweight and couldn't understand it as she said she ate healthily, and produced her normal breakfast bowl of fresh fruit berries etc to prove it. Trouble was, the bowl was piled high with all this lovely sweet sugary fresh fruit and what does sugar have lots of…calories. To me, the biggest problem we have especially in the west, is lack of both self control and personal responsibility (and yes to a certain extent I put myself in that bracket, especailly as I've gotten older). We smoke and drink and pig out on stuff, can't be arsed to exercise then moan when we fall ill.

@"Pompeyexile"#p46814 Absolutely spot on. Also like with everything it’s hard to know which studies/research/reports are fact and which have been paid for by an organisation with a stake in the discussion. I’ve been vegan almost three years and I’m in the best shape of my life by a country mile. However it takes the same discipline as with any other diet to not reach for the sugary snacks and processed c**p. I could just as easily be overweight on a vegan diet as I could with any other. Interestingly that Tim Spector in the vid above has a company called Zoe which targets gut health. It revolves around the idea that each of us are entirely unique and one diet/food/drink that affects one person doesn’t automatically affect the next in the same way. This seems to contradict the ‘one size fits all’ approach to nutrition and health that we’ve been used to for hundreds of years. All about listening to you body and doing what feels right for you. I think it also changes with age. I would happily consume 6 coffees a day when I was younger without issue. Doing that now would have me truly on edge. Whereas I know plenty of people who drink more than that, or can’t even have 3.

I went vegan, very strictly, Aug/sept 19, near 18st by the end of first lockdown in what march 2020 I was 12:4 I did it to cut out all my processed and junk food. You can buy just as bad vegan stuff now I'm now an omnivore, as in I may have a piece of meat once a month, I eat mainly fish, and lots of veg pasta, cut out milk too, I've always been a big water drinker 4l plus a day I'm not stable at 13st 4 my body seems happy here, General rule is a little bit of what you like does you good, too much of what you like makes you fat 😂😁

Is Coffee healthy ?

Ernie1

I feel like this thread has gone too far off topic and is inciting a lot of unverified opinions, my own included.

Also potential misinformation, which I’m not sure has a place on CoffeeTime or indeed anywhere.

Grahamsphillips

I’m happy to provide citations for everything I’ve written here @Ernie1 if that helps.

Ernie1

Grahamsphillips The more red meat we eat, the LESS cancer and LOWER all cause mortality.

I’m not doubting that what’s been said isn’t backed by some sort of research, it’s just this bit
that seems in contrast to advice currently available on the Cancer Research website.

DavecUK

Ernie1 The problem is a lot of the statements comes from research (“studies”) and you have to be super careful when reading such statements. This is because such research “studies” can be based on other “studies” and often there is either a paucity of actual experimental data, funding interests on some research and of course the issues about self selected/reported data for studies. e.g.

cancer research, plant foods companies etc.. funds studies or research
processed or non processed food industry funds
how good is the study and the study or research it’s based on
do you really understand the statistics used
why does red and processed meat always seem to be lumped together
what were the questions asked of respondents, did the respondents understand the distinction between red meat and processed meat correctly. e.g. a natural burger and a heavily processed one
cheap and expensive meat, not all red meat is created equal
were lifestyle and cultural differences excluded
was the whole diet examined, or just meat consumption e.g. were lots of high fibre veg being consumed?

There’s loads more issues that need to be considered.

Grahamsphillips

I agree re PROCSSED meat. Processed foods of any sort increase all cause mortality
There’s ZERO evidence to support their second and third statements. What you likely dont’ know is the extent to which many charities are bank rolled by big food and big pharma. For example Diabetes UK brought to you with a 500,000 grant from Britvic no less

Read this about WEGOVY and you’ll see what I mean:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/apr/02/revealed-maker-of-wegovy-skinny-jab-is-funding-nhs-weight-loss-services

On the subject of red meat, countries that have high consumption have lower cancer risks and cancer continued to rise when red meat consumption dropped.

chlorox

Grahamsphillips

What do you think about this meta study for example?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4698595/

It collates together many studies and seems to show that there is a positive correlation between cr cancer risk the more red meat is eaten, not just processed meat. If so then it tends to support the blue zones diet which does include meat but in relatively small quantities.

Ernie1

Not to dispute your point, but out of curiosity,

If CR was bankrolled by big food and big pharma what interest would they have in dissuading meat consumption? Would they not say the opposite or indeed just not say it?

The same thing is on the NHS website:

Grahamsphillips

So big food (ie UPF or Junk Food) is essentially owned by 9 worldwide brands. The huge profits are NOT in Real Food.. they come from the UPF. No way would Big Food want UPF to be recognised as addictive (hence there is no official classification of food addiction in DSM or ICD) or the cause of obesity, cancer and the rest of it. Here’s an article from the BMJ about COKE for example. In fact the BMJ has carried numerous articles like this.. I just picked one at random

https://www.bmj.com/content/364/bmj.k5050

So we can see where the vested interests of the food cos come from

As for Big Pharma: To put it simply, they have no interest in prevention.. they wouldn’t sell any drugs! Of course its much more complicated than that but these are simple truths

Grahamsphillips

Just out of interest I checked on the corporate sponsors of CR UK. Reach your own conclusions!

https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/get-involved/become-a-partner/about-our-corporate-partnership-programme/all-our-corporate-partners

Ernie1

Interesting.

Is ‘big agriculture’ a thing?

Grahamsphillips

Susan Greenhalgh investigates how, faced with shrinking Western markets, the soft drink giant sought to secure sales and build its image in China

Grahamsphillips

@chlorox

Grahamsphillips

I’m not a Daily Mail fan but this is nevertheless pretty much spot on

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1325453/Everything-thought-knew-food-WRONG.html

chlorox

Grahamsphillips

Arent you dismissing the weight of scientific research by a multitude of dcientists workjng independently all over the world as being impelled by a cabal of agri businesses but following instead a journalist who writes a book to promote her own diet and earns money through it? I found her absolute dismissal of the importance of the fibre in fruits and vegetables and of th ebenefits of fruits to be startling. Meat and butter cannot replace what fruits can give us and fruits come with fibre that control the intake of sugar into the bloodstream…

chlorox

DavecUK

Those acadenic studies arent perfect but there is nothing else that is able to give a better and less subjectivr source of data on which we can make decisions…

Ernie1

If we’re now referencing the Daily Mail I think I’ve seen all I need to see in this thread.

Grahamsphillips

Ernie1 If we’re now referencing the Daily Mail I think I’ve seen all I need to see in this thread.

Far from referencing the Daily Fail. The point is it’s a simple to understand explanation. I’ve already posted a more complex reference from the BMJ.

DavecUK

chlorox Those acadenic studies arent perfect but there is nothing else that is able to give a better and less subjectivr source of data on which we can make decisions…

What I was taught in university was to be very careful about epidemiological studies and scientific papers. Lots of real rubbish work out there. You really have to dig into the meat of it and how the statements of fact were really arrived at.

chlorox

DavecUK

That is true but rhat is also why the methodology etc are all required to be set out in peer reviewed academic papers. Other sources of data have far less rigour and control and disclosure.

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